00:28:08 · Alan Chang, James Wise
[00:28:08] S0: Yeah, I think that's a good question, right? Look, reality is, I think trying to influence policy is very, very hard, right? I mean, regardless of whether you're startup or a big company, right? But I think it's even more difficult than as a startup. Right now, what we're focused on is basically within constraints, do the best job we can within constraints. And I think there's actually a lot of things we can do, right, to make it much better. Now would you... If you ask me, would I like to remove the constraints? Of course, would like to remove the constraints, right? But worthwhile constraints, I think we can still do a very good job. But if if there were, you know, let's say, better policy, then we could even do a even more amazing job. [00:28:59] S1: Do you have specific policies in mind that you think, you know, you wish you could change today to give Fuse the chance to grow even faster? [00:29:08] S0: Yeah. And and... Yes. And to be clear, I think this apply... What helps Fuse grow faster, I think, will also help the whole industry grow faster. So probably two things on my wish list. The first is planning. If we simplify planning, we will move much, much faster. Right now, I would say there's a lot of unnecessary surveys and paperwork that could be reduced and to on what's actually needed to make sure we don't damage the environment. And probably the second is basically deleting any form of subsidies, right? And let's go back to competing on costs.
00:29:08 · Alan Chang, James Wise
[00:29:08] S0: Yeah. And and... Yes. And to be clear, I think this apply... What helps Fuse grow faster, I think, will also help the whole industry grow faster. So probably two things on my wish list. The first is planning. If we simplify planning, we will move much, much faster. Right now, I would say there's a lot of unnecessary surveys and paperwork that could be reduced and to on what's actually needed to make sure we don't damage the environment. And probably the second is basically deleting any form of subsidies, right? And let's go back to competing on costs. [00:30:00] S1: Yeah, there's been some, and especially in industrial energy, there's been some perverse incentives, as you say, wind farms being turned off and paid to turn off because of the way that we've incentivized wrongly sometimes the market. And so clearly, there are some good policies out there, but policies need updating over time. I'm a big advocate for that as well. Despite some of the unnecessary regulations and costs put on a business like yours, you are growing exceptionally fast at the moment. Can you talk a little bit about the achievements of Fuze this year? Where you are? And maybe talk a little bit about what you hope to achieve in 2026?
00:30:38 · Alan Chang, James Wise
[00:30:38] S0: Yeah, so this year we've grown roughly eight times year to date. We're projected to grow 10x by end of year, and we've done that consistently since founding. Yes. What we've achieved is like you know, we basically built 10 companies in one. So, you know, the three things I mentioned earlier, low costs, good products, and good customer service. But reality is there's a lot of things that happen in the background. Like, whilst it's like, you know, the value prop for the customer is very simple, right? But there's a lot of complexity that we have to deal with, and we have in house a lot of that complexity so customers don't feel it and can also enjoy low cost energy. Yes, 2026 is going to be a big year for us, right? We're going launch in more markets. We will launch the energy network. We're going to launch our own hardware, and we're gonna start doing some big bets in in things like, you know, energy adjacent, right, like recycling and perhaps building an R and D team for fusion as well. [00:32:03] S1: There's incredible breadth there and scale of ambition, which I love. How do you, as a founder, stay on top of everything that's happening in your market? What's your approach to being at the frontier while simultaneously scaling some very complicated products?
00:32:03 · James Wise, Alan Chang
[00:32:03] S1: There's incredible breadth there and scale of ambition, which I love. How do you, as a founder, stay on top of everything that's happening in your market? What's your approach to being at the frontier while simultaneously scaling some very complicated products? [00:32:22] S0: Yeah, so I think it goes back to hiring really, really good people. And ultimately, my job is to help them succeed, right? So if they're doing well, I let them be. If there's a problem, I help them solve it. Or if they're blocked by something, you know, I help them block it. Right? And I'll say I'm still very close to the detail where, you know, details where, you know, in the most important areas of the business. [00:32:53] S1: It's an astonishing achievement. And like, I think the amazing thing about every time I talk to you, the next sentence always blows me up. The scale of ambition, I think, is just exceptional. And so, it's really rewarding again to work with you. Perhaps one of the final questions I have is around your views on how, and if we should have more people in the entrepreneurial ecosystem in Europe. Do you think that Europe has, and The UK in particular, has the bedrock to scale more companies like Revolut and Fuse? Should we have more people being entrepreneurs? And what do you say to people who are thinking about, to the 13 year olds who are reading the modern day TechCrunch in their bedroom today?
00:32:53 · James Wise, Alan Chang
[00:32:53] S1: It's an astonishing achievement. And like, I think the amazing thing about every time I talk to you, the next sentence always blows me up. The scale of ambition, I think, is just exceptional. And so, it's really rewarding again to work with you. Perhaps one of the final questions I have is around your views on how, and if we should have more people in the entrepreneurial ecosystem in Europe. Do you think that Europe has, and The UK in particular, has the bedrock to scale more companies like Revolut and Fuse? Should we have more people being entrepreneurs? And what do you say to people who are thinking about, to the 13 year olds who are reading the modern day TechCrunch in their bedroom today? [00:33:38] S0: Yeah, I think starting a company is very painful. So I wouldn't recommend it unless you're very sure. And I think if you know you want to do it like deep down your... In your heart, you know whether you wanna do it. Right? And I I... I'm of a view, like, we we shouldn't encourage entrepreneurship because it's it's it's truly very painful, and you should do it only if you really, really want to do it. And if you really wanna do it, you should do it. [00:34:17] S1: Finally, you know, we've been fortunate to to back you twice, both at Revolut and Fuse pretty early on. There are some things that we hope we provide as a fund and support. What's your view of sort of European VC versus other experiences you've had of venture? And do you have any advice to people out there fundraising today?
00:34:40 · Alan Chang
[00:34:40] S0: Yeah, the sad reality is US venture move much faster than European venture. Now, obviously, like I'm generalizing here. I can't say that's obviously not true for every European fund, right? I think Bulletin is the exception. But it's usually much better experience to fundraise with a US venture. That's reality. I think the second thing is US VCs respond to ambition much better than European VC. So this is like a real experience from fundraising. But in first meeting with European VC, they already put us in the box of, Okay, you're a UK only challenger. But I just couldn't comprehend, like, what do you mean by UK only? Like, plan to go to so many markets, right? But then they want to put us back in the box of, Okay, a single country, single vertical company, right? Whereas if you speak to most U. S. Venture VCs, we tell them, okay, we want to be multi country, multi product vertical. They respond positively to that. Right? And and and to be honest, partially, I think that's because in Europe, don't see a lot of multi country, multi product vertical companies. Right? It's actually quite strange to... I think probably Revolut is one of the I can't even count to five, the number of companies that are multi country, multi product vertical. But yeah, I think yeah, there's a lot of and I think that in general, there's lot of people complaining the European government could do more blah, blah, blah. But I think they should also look to themselves, especially in the tech community in Europe. Maybe you have a problem too.