00:06:52 · James Wise, Alan Chang
[00:06:52] S1: the world I've seen that doesn't suggest that more energy consumption results in better productivity, GDP growth, and better outcomes for individuals. And we've been telling people across the world, in the Western world at least, to use less, which basically means have less. Yes. So your your your motivation is to shift, you know, I guess energy consumption, but hopefully productivity, GDP. [00:07:14] S0: Yeah, for sure. Ultimately, energy is the engine behind physical GDP growth, which is majority of the GDP. And right now, the engine's broken, so we need to fix it. [00:07:29] S1: I wanna talk more about energy in a little bit, but but maybe we can talk more about your experiences before Fuze. You were, you know, one of the first employees and ultimately CRO at Revolut, one of the most successful software companies, financial services companies in the world now. So it must have been a difficult decision to leave. Other than your motivation to shift GDP, were there other reasons why you felt now or a few years ago it was the right time to to start something new? Had you always wanted to be a founder?
00:07:59 · Alan Chang
[00:07:59] S0: I always wanted to work in an entrepreneurial environment, and I think Revolut, you know, was and remains to be, you know, a great place to work for, you know, anyone who work... Wants to work in an entrepreneurial environment. I personally don't really care about, you know, this, like, founder title or non founder title. I I don't think it matters to me at all. Like, what matters to me is the the problem I'm trying to solve. And for me, like, there's two two, like, two reasons why I I decided to leave Revolut. Number one was it's in very good hands. Right? Like, it it is like a self running machine that keeps growing, and there's great people working in it. And, you know, I I felt like my impact at Revolut was reducing over time, for good reason. I think that's a positive thing. And the second is, think, at the time, I thought, Okay, what are the most important problems to solve in the next twenty five years? And for me, it's energy or AI. And I picked energy because there was a lot of very, very smart people working in AI. I was looking at, okay, how many smart people actually work in energy? Reality is there isn't a lot. Right? But for such an important industry, right, there is, like, a huge, you know, talent misallocation. There's over index on traditional finance, big tech. I'll say I'll argue AI is pretty like correctly allocated. But energy is like it's unallocated, right? And one of the beautiful things about startups is you can actually convince, you know, very, very smart people to join, you know, an industry where traditionally hasn't attracted a lot of very, very smart people. Right? So that's what drawn me to energy.
00:09:46 · James Wise, Alan Chang
[00:09:46] S1: And so, Fuze and before Revolut, had you always thought that you'd end up working in startups? Had you always had that desire? Or were there times that you considered other kinds of industries or career paths? [00:10:00] S0: Yeah. So I I decided I I wanna do startups when I was 13. So I was... When I was a kid, I I read a lot of TechCrunch articles. Okay. Yeah. And I was obsessed with, like, yeah, tech tech companies at the time. So, yeah, I I always knew I wanted to do startups. [00:10:17] S1: Similarly, was a young TechCrunch addict. But, you know, when I started Inventure sort of thirteen, fourteen years ago now, even TechCrunch, you felt like the center of the world was San Francisco in California, but you were reading those articles and have subsequently stayed in The UK and in building businesses, obviously globally, but a lot of the engineering and talent that you've pulled together is in The UK. How have you felt... How do you feel about that balance? And, you know, was that something you were conscious of wanting to do?
00:10:17 · James Wise, Alan Chang
[00:10:17] S1: Similarly, was a young TechCrunch addict. But, you know, when I started Inventure sort of thirteen, fourteen years ago now, even TechCrunch, you felt like the center of the world was San Francisco in California, but you were reading those articles and have subsequently stayed in The UK and in building businesses, obviously globally, but a lot of the engineering and talent that you've pulled together is in The UK. How have you felt... How do you feel about that balance? And, you know, was that something you were conscious of wanting to do? [00:10:49] S0: So I... My parents sent me to boarding school here, and I decided to study university here. And it was basically mainly Revloot that convinced me to keep staying here, to be honest. And then what I realized is actually there is... In despite, you know, all the problems we have in The UK, it is probably one of the top countries to hire engineers from. Right? And not just, like, British engineers, but, like, you know, we have tons of, like, Eastern European engineers that want to move here. So, yeah, I I think it's it's it's... It remains to be a great place to build build a start up.
00:10:49 · Alan Chang, James Wise
[00:10:49] S0: So I... My parents sent me to boarding school here, and I decided to study university here. And it was basically mainly Revloot that convinced me to keep staying here, to be honest. And then what I realized is actually there is... In despite, you know, all the problems we have in The UK, it is probably one of the top countries to hire engineers from. Right? And not just, like, British engineers, but, like, you know, we have tons of, like, Eastern European engineers that want to move here. So, yeah, I I think it's it's it's... It remains to be a great place to build build a start up. [00:11:27] S1: I think you're a great advocate for it, but I I also think we need far more people to, like, talk about, yes, there's challenges in The UK, but our situation is much better in terms of the ability to hire and build, I think, than often the press or some some people in other industries give us credit for. Perhaps not because of the state, perhaps sometimes despite the state, but as you say, the talent and the levels of ambition here, I think are incredibly high. And, as you say, early on, you knew you wanted to be an entrepreneur. You went and worked at Revolut very early on. Were there principles you've taken from Revolut, or learnings, or experiences you've taken from Revolut that you've kept at Fuse Energy?
00:11:27 · James Wise, Alan Chang
[00:11:27] S1: I think you're a great advocate for it, but I I also think we need far more people to, like, talk about, yes, there's challenges in The UK, but our situation is much better in terms of the ability to hire and build, I think, than often the press or some some people in other industries give us credit for. Perhaps not because of the state, perhaps sometimes despite the state, but as you say, the talent and the levels of ambition here, I think are incredibly high. And, as you say, early on, you knew you wanted to be an entrepreneur. You went and worked at Revolut very early on. Were there principles you've taken from Revolut, or learnings, or experiences you've taken from Revolut that you've kept at Fuse Energy? [00:12:08] S0: I would say the key thing I've learned is, hiring the best talent is basically solving 80% of the problem. The other 20% is like a bunch of other things. And yeah, I think that's the key thing that I've taken away, right? I focus majority time trying to recruit the best designers, best engineers in the world. [00:12:30] S1: And can you talk a little bit about the kinds of people then, and org structure that you've had to create to build a business, as you say, which is vertically integrated, so does so many different things?