The High Flyers Podcast with Vidit Agarwal
00:34:04 · Jack Zhang
[00:34:04] S1: I think people's personality is more important than than kind of intelligence in a startup, especially in a hyper growth phase. Because you feel rejection, you're facing denial, you're facing frustration in almost every day of your job. If you join a company that have a sales motion product market fit already, it's very easy to just do your job because you have all the infrastructure to follow the process and here you go, right? But when you are selling a product that not quite get product market fit, you need to talk to customers to get that feedback and facing constantly denial. And that is not what everybody likes to do. And you, you basically have to be very resilient and very curious about what you can do to fix those problems. It's, it's, it's more like a, a job of, of fixing problem or solving problem instead of just get a smooth sailing of what you do. Think, and also because the company have a different requirement and demand in different stage of the company, your skill set also evolve, right? And so you have to grow very quickly and adjusting yourself. Have to have a very low ego. You have to be less territorial and you have to be generally like curious and just wanted to improve yourself. Most of the people that we had to let go in the early days of wallet is because the ego and the territorial mindset is like, okay, this is my team. You can't, can, you see, you're going to tell anything that of working for me, you have to go through me, right? That's just a completely wrong mindset. And we will kind of the same. And then let's just work together to figure out how solve the problem. Forget about this is your team or his team or my team. And this is my people or your people. We all kind of work as a common vision. Let's just focus on the problem.
00:35:54 · Vidit Agarwal, Jack Zhang
[00:35:54] S0: Yeah. Yeah, totally. I want to transition into VC because I think you've got some good context there and also founders because you spend a lot of time founders internationally as well. But before I get to that, I want to talk about, I think just you, like how do you de stress? Because I think people don't appreciate how hard a founder's life is. I think people in the media or people in society think it's a very easy job, but I spend a lot of time founders and I'm a founder myself in some ways. It's hard. You're lonely at times, particularly in the early days, there are expectations. How do you de stress? What what are some things you do outside of work to just go, I'm gonna enjoy life, like, or switch off? [00:36:32] S1: To be honest, I never switch off. And I probably worked a hundred hours a week from 16 years old for at least twenty years. Yeah. I never felt I need to de stress. [00:36:47] S0: But you play golf, right? You play golf and I think you ski a bit. [00:36:51] S1: Very little when I'm building. I've only started to play a bit more golf and ski a bit more in the last two years. As Airwallis is now profitable and have true scale. And there's a machine that continue to operating while I'm not there. But that was not the case in the first sort of six, seven years of building AeroAlex, and it's very chaotic, it's very intense. And I don't have a very good way of managing stress. I get stressed out all the time. I get a lot of anxiety. I had multiple anxiety attack over in the hospital multiple times during the startup phase of AIRWALLX.
00:36:51 · Jack Zhang, Vidit Agarwal
[00:36:51] S1: Very little when I'm building. I've only started to play a bit more golf and ski a bit more in the last two years. As Airwallis is now profitable and have true scale. And there's a machine that continue to operating while I'm not there. But that was not the case in the first sort of six, seven years of building AeroAlex, and it's very chaotic, it's very intense. And I don't have a very good way of managing stress. I get stressed out all the time. I get a lot of anxiety. I had multiple anxiety attack over in the hospital multiple times during the startup phase of AIRWALLX. [00:37:24] S0: Wow. Wow. There's a lot [00:37:26] S1: of sacrifice. I think people generally on the estimated amount of sacrifice as a founder to start a technology business that have true scale. Like I wouldn't ask my daughter to... I wouldn't want my daughter to fund a startup. [00:37:39] S0: What would you advise her to do? If you could advise her to build her career, what do you think in today's world is like the next big thing? [00:37:48] S1: I think that's irrelevant of what my daughter... I wanted my daughter to do, right? I just want her to be happy. Yeah. What is the next big thing is relevant for her happiness in my opinion? [00:37:58] S0: Yeah. Yeah.
00:37:58 · Vidit Agarwal, Jack Zhang
[00:37:58] S0: Yeah. Yeah. [00:37:59] S1: You could be the most successful person in the world, but your life could be miserable. And I've seen that in real life. And you could be just doing a normal job and then just be very happy. I want my daughter's name is Ella. I want Ella do what she's passionate about, whether it's arts or it's music. Yeah, anything that she feel passionate about, I don't have the expectation she will be doing the next big thing in the world. [00:38:28] S0: You sound... You're a very different Asian parent. I think most Asian parents will be like, do this. So... [00:38:34] S1: Yeah. I think I feel like a lot of the Asian parents, like, they're not super successful themselves, so they force their kids to to do that. Yeah. Yeah. And also, I I I think my my mindset is heavily influenced by Australian culture and also like US culture. [00:38:51] S0: I think another part that's really interesting about you that you were telling me the other day is you spend a lot of time with other founders. Like you talked about curiosity, and I know you've got a really good network of founders. What are some areas you've tapped into other founders that you're learning about? Like, give me some examples of questions that you ask other successful founders that helps you learn.
00:39:14 · Jack Zhang, Vidit Agarwal
[00:39:14] S1: I generally curious about that mindset of how do you think about the principles running the business. I used to be very focused on, we will build a $100,000,000,000 bids. This is reverse engineer what a $100,000,000,000 business looks like. And reverse engineer to today, as in what do we need to build together? But that's the single focus. It's just like, let's just dissemble everything and just look at how that revenue got constructed a $100,000,000,000 business and what do we need to build to get there? How do we scale? This is like really focused on. I think what I learned from a lot of the Silicon Valley founders is really customer focus and problem focus. And then I think that will give you, I think that you will make a better decisions in terms of priority. I think end of the day, Airwallis is nothing without its customers so that if we laser focus on solving customer's problems and then customer like a super happy with our product and services that, and then that will help us to get that faster. I think like that customer first mindset is really kind of what I learned from some of the Silicon Valley founders. Laser focus on that priority. [00:40:30] S0: Yeah. And are there any founders that you've met them and you're like, wow, they are very impressive that inspire you?
00:40:39 · Jack Zhang
[00:40:39] S1: I have a bunch of friends that are like super successful. Know Eric from Brax really well. And he and his co founder Pedro just very complement each other. And Eric is only like 28. Right? I very rarely sort of meet somebody like every time we catch up, I learn something from him. This is probably the the most optimistic person I know in the world. He always think everything just gonna work out ultimately. Right? So... And you always, he's always open about sharing his his lessons and failures and the success he had, and always wanted his friends to be successful and helping his friends and just very, very inspiring. And to hang out with somebody that always willing to share. Very close with the founder of MessageBird. Now they just rebranded to Bird. And they build the entire sort of network of carriers around the world to challenging Twilio, to providing the best communication infrastructure to help businesses to sending text SMS and WhatsApp or other omni channels. But now they're building application layer, a marketing platform, a CRM platform to help modern business to acquire customers, engage customers and then convert customer with payments. So they build the entire payment infrastructure on top of Airwallets. It's almost like he's reinventing his businesses from a purity of infrastructure business to application plus infrastructure business, and then challenging the clavails of the attempt of the world. It's very, very impressive founder. And the one thing I really like about him is like told me one thing I really changed my perspective life. He told me, dude, money is fluid, but time is not.