00:51:29 · Jack Zhang
[00:51:29] S0: Sometimes you see this like CV, it's, you know, looks like a really good fit, but you just have this like a weird intuition. It's like maybe it's not the right fit. And and sometimes that you don't trust your intuition and you just trust professional advice and you end up being very, very wrong. I think able to, like, recruit and fire people very fast is extremely important in early stage company, and we made way too many mistakes that we shouldn't. And we made a lot of mistakes in recruitment by looking at experience, which is completely relevant. I wish I had known that 10 ago, and I just didn't. Right? So I hired a lot of these experienced people and end up all... Create a lot of issues for the company, and then we have to fire them all, and which taking years to do that, which is also another big mistake. We should have done that in weeks, not years. Why did it take years? Because I kinda just doubt myself. Right? Because they... They're very good at convincing you you are wrong. And and I think maybe I am wrong because I've never done that. What do I know about it? Right? So they they wanted to build a product in a certain direction, and maybe I was like, well, you have built this same... Similar system in Citi for last decade. And You probably know better than I do. Probably better know than... Yeah. I got... I have to rewrite a lot of the system afterwards because end of the day, first principle thinking is a lot more important than the experience. What were the highest performers? They didn't have experience? The initial sort of playbook is all quite random. It does... You know, because we are from Melbourne and there's not a of it's not like, oh, there's, like, 10 company you can just recruiting from. You know? Like, you can just sit in the front of that door of that company and just try to talk to every single engineer. There's no such thing in Melbourne, and we kinda have to go everywhere and then try random places, and it it is very kind of coincident. Know, you know, we... You know, our chief part officer came from Palantir. He he spent twelve years at Palantir, which is the first hire of Palantir outside of The US, become the GM of Palantir Australia and New Zealand, and then started the the Palantir European office and build a European business.
00:53:56 · Jack Zhang, Joubin Mirzadegan
Then went back to to the New York to become a engineer manager or product manager to build a fountain product. So... But then, like, after a decade and more, he is Aussie, and he wanted to go back to Melbourne and live in Melbourne. And and we just randomly... He applied a job in Airwallex at a random job, and we just randomly met and and then end up... He's like, wow. Amazing. You know? How do you end up in Melbourne? Like, but you... Can you find another person like that in Melbourne? You can't. Right? So it's just, like, lot of luck and lot of random things have happened. And, you know, I think we raised the most amount of money in Melbourne also probably helped that some of the talent will come to us and and wanna talk to us. But it's very difficult. It just... There's no playbook that you could borrow from somebody to to build a business out of Melbourne. [00:54:51] S1: Two years in, Stripe, what happened? Tell me this... Like Stripe calls you? Sequoia connects you? Yeah. Sequoia connected us. And they wanted you to sell to Stripe? Yeah. Makes sense. They have a big position in Stripe. Yeah. They have a big position in Airwallex. You're starting to compete. [00:55:12] S0: Well, not really. At that time, Stripe was doing payments. Okay. Airwallex was doing global money movement. [00:55:18] S1: Okay. So they saw it as symbiotic. It's like perfect match. K. Know? They wanna they wanna international. Yeah. They were in the bay.
00:55:18 · Joubin Mirzadegan, Jack Zhang
[00:55:18] S1: Okay. So they saw it as symbiotic. It's like perfect match. K. Know? They wanna they wanna international. Yeah. They were in the bay. [00:55:25] S0: Yeah. It's like a 100... Like a perfect match. Right? We have global money movement, which they haven't built anything. They have payments, and we wanted to get into payments because, you know, money in is where everything's getting started. We wanted to pursue a banking. They didn't have any plan to do banking. So it's just like a perfect match from a vision perspective, everything's aligned. [00:55:48] S1: So Sequoia connects you. Yeah. You talked to what? John or Patrick? [00:55:52] S0: I talked to Will initially, [00:55:53] S1: Will Haybreak. Yep. K. [00:55:56] S0: Then then I connected with with with Patrick. Mainly just Patrick. I haven't really... You know, I only met John once in that process. [00:56:03] S1: Okay. And how many conversations did you and Patrick have? A lot. Probably, like, [00:56:08] S0: you know, 20, 30, 40 conversations and spent a lot of time together. [00:56:12] S1: Over how many months? Two, three months. [00:56:15] S0: That's a lot in a short period of time. Yeah. We're on WhatsApp every day and talk about... I mean, he he started, like... He really liked writing things down, so he started, like, a memo on Google Doc and just share about... He saw it and asked me to come in and contribute. And, yeah, quite amazing that we just figured out, wow, the company's mission ultimately aligned. [00:56:37] S1: Okay. And so then he says, hey. I'd like to buy you. How does it work?
00:56:37 · Joubin Mirzadegan, Jack Zhang
[00:56:37] S1: Okay. And so then he says, hey. I'd like to buy you. How does it work? [00:56:43] S0: I don't know how that kind of conversation started. I I think I re... Remember what Michael Morris said. I mean, this is seven, eight years ago. Right? So Michael Morris said, trust building a a trillion dollar company. And, you know, I was... You know, I I think, initially, I was like, I... I'm not sure I wanna sell. We're only, like, three years in. I haven't even enjoyed the the the journey yet. I mean, like, feels like half baked something and then had to sell, like, after three years, and am I gonna have the energy to do another start up? And Michael Murray said it's like the earlier that you're compounding, the faster you can get to a trillion dollar. And, you know, if collectively you guys can achieve that faster, and that is a better thing for everybody and for the world, and you should seriously consider that. And that was quite convincing. I was like, if you're gonna end up getting there ultimately in the next ten, twenty years and, you know, getting there faster makes a lot of sense if we can work together. But ultimately, come back to the question what makes me happy. Right? I was 33, 34 at a time. You know, it's a five year journey. I'll be 39 when I finish the five year lockup as a CEO of APAC or the GM of APAC. Am I gonna be happy at that time? I'm gonna be proud of what I've been doing for the last five years? The answer is very unclear. It's like, probably not. I mean, do I have the energy to build another startup that I feel super excited about?
00:56:43 · Jack Zhang, Joubin Mirzadegan
[00:56:43] S0: I don't know how that kind of conversation started. I I think I re... Remember what Michael Morris said. I mean, this is seven, eight years ago. Right? So Michael Morris said, trust building a a trillion dollar company. And, you know, I was... You know, I I think, initially, I was like, I... I'm not sure I wanna sell. We're only, like, three years in. I haven't even enjoyed the the the journey yet. I mean, like, feels like half baked something and then had to sell, like, after three years, and am I gonna have the energy to do another start up? And Michael Murray said it's like the earlier that you're compounding, the faster you can get to a trillion dollar. And, you know, if collectively you guys can achieve that faster, and that is a better thing for everybody and for the world, and you should seriously consider that. And that was quite convincing. I was like, if you're gonna end up getting there ultimately in the next ten, twenty years and, you know, getting there faster makes a lot of sense if we can work together. But ultimately, come back to the question what makes me happy. Right? I was 33, 34 at a time. You know, it's a five year journey. I'll be 39 when I finish the five year lockup as a CEO of APAC or the GM of APAC. Am I gonna be happy at that time? I'm gonna be proud of what I've been doing for the last five years? The answer is very unclear. It's like, probably not. I mean, do I have the energy to build another startup that I feel super excited about? [00:58:25] S1: Like, to go zero to one again?
00:58:25 · Joubin Mirzadegan, Jack Zhang
[00:58:25] S1: Like, to go zero to one again? [00:58:27] S0: Yeah. I mean, when I'm 39, am I able to do that again? So it's just a lot of question. I can... And then if even I wanted to do a zero to one and build another business again. [00:58:37] S1: What are the odds that happens? What what I'm gonna do? Yeah. [00:58:40] S0: Right? I don't even... I don't have a next idea. I I... You know? And, again, it's, like, five years away. And then, you know, it's a very difficult decision. I I walked around in San Francisco for two weeks, and, you know, and I actually verbally told Patrick we should do it. I mean, it kinda makes sense, like, logically makes sense. And... But when I'm back to Melbourne, was like, hang on a minute. I'm actually gonna be happy by doing this. You're gonna have a lot of money, but, like, what does that mean to kind of... You know, from a happiness standpoint? And ultimately asked my cofounders, and then they all said, like, it's your call. And and I I... You know, it's a bit of a naive. Right? That, you know, I said, you know, if... I think that we have more possibilities of of doing this on our own. Did anybody wanna do it? Anybody wanna sell? Max suggested we should sell, but all the other founders Why? Money? You know, Max, you know, described as one of the best tech company in the world, you know, even at that time. Right? And [00:59:47] S1: and Max Right. Of all the places to go.