etn.
00:53:07 · S5, Sam, Kosta
[00:53:07] S5: I I think so. The smartest people I've been talking to have been able to not just replicate, but extend it. Now, look, there may be some constraints, like, may be opposing ideas and models can't hold both of them in their head. Like, you can't be highly conscientious and highly open. Mhmm. Right? Because that sort of implies that the same weights are pointed in different directions, but you may be able to do things like get models that are able to have high entropy and non verifiable domains, beautiful art and prose, but then high precision and verifiable domains where they can also write great code and be mathematical. Yeah. And we've never been able to kind of, reconcile those trade offs before. [00:53:40] S1: What happens then to, if you look at the whole stack in terms of frontier models, open weights, all of that kind of stuff, like where does that leave us in terms of the frontier? What does that mean for the kind of you know, who wins, I guess? Where is the value being accrued in that right? [00:53:58] S5: Mean, I don't think it's zero sum, right? The frontier, basically, we've got a somewhat, you know, maybe a duopoly, though there's a few other, obviously, sort of Google's been growing in fits and starts, and SpaceX, I think, is actually more recently relevant. But they've maintained pricing power for their Frontier models. Right? And in fact, Mythos, the the legendary Mythos, the too dangerous to release model [00:54:17] S0: Europeans hate Mythos.
00:54:17 · Kosta, S5, Sam
[00:54:17] S0: Europeans hate Mythos. [00:54:19] S5: Very funny. But, like, there's a lot of aura associated with it, and it's essentially infinity dollars per token. Right? You can't even access it same with Daybreak from OAI. So despite that we've seen these really capable open weight models, Frontier is still maintaining pricing power, and we're just seeing the whole Pareto curve get filled out. [00:54:35] S1: Okay. That's really interesting that you mentioned aura in terms of, like, the fact that the, defensibility is because of their aura kind of thing. Why is that? Yeah. I guess like was that a... Do you think that was like a deliberate strategy just to garner aura through mythos? Like what? Yeah, what what is that? And and can that hold as a moat, I guess, for the Frontier Labs? [00:54:58] S5: Well, it is... It... It's very funny. Because the reason I think this is happening is if you look at the total buyer set for all of the AI spent today, which is, you know, probably a $175,000,000,000 conservatively, it's 10,000,000 people. Yeah. And all of them are on x. So it's very funny because it's sort of... A lot of the choices that are being made, these huge capital allocation decisions are kind of downstream of x and what those conversations are. And I think, you know, many people on x, like all of us, are hyper AI pilled. So this, like, idea, this fantasy that this model, there's some crazy intelligence that is being held back from us. [00:55:31] S1: Yeah.
00:55:31 · Sam, S5, Kosta
[00:55:31] S1: Yeah. [00:55:32] S5: Yeah. It's just an... It's an exciting thing, and I think that ends up driving a lot of downstream buying decisions. Yeah. I don't know if that is what drove Anthropic thinking explicitly, but it was a beneficial side effect. Right? [00:55:42] S1: 100%. Yeah. Yeah. [00:55:43] S5: Yeah. It helps with ComputeCrunch. It helps with Aura. And then it helps actually because they can distill that model into the smaller models like Opus and Fable, which they end up releasing and you don't have to redo the pre training runs and everything else. [00:55:55] S1: Yeah. Yeah. [00:55:56] S0: I'm going take [00:55:56] S1: this conversation in a way that I feel like you would like to talk about in terms of the power of X. We talk about why more Europeans aren't on X and what that means for our ecosystem. We're huge advocates for the VCs and founders who are building presences on X from Europe. We think it's a huge advantage. I'm sure you do too. Think you said to me yesterday that your leisure time is spent literally just consuming things on X because it's just where these things are at. Right? Talk to us about the power of X. Why should people be using it? Zuck obviously just post, you know, he's come back to X having, you know, a competitive app, and he... He's obviously been... He's been kind of, you know, talked about before and... Yeah. So that's like, why
00:55:56 · Sam, S5
[00:55:56] S1: this conversation in a way that I feel like you would like to talk about in terms of the power of X. We talk about why more Europeans aren't on X and what that means for our ecosystem. We're huge advocates for the VCs and founders who are building presences on X from Europe. We think it's a huge advantage. I'm sure you do too. Think you said to me yesterday that your leisure time is spent literally just consuming things on X because it's just where these things are at. Right? Talk to us about the power of X. Why should people be using it? Zuck obviously just post, you know, he's come back to X having, you know, a competitive app, and he... He's obviously been... He's been kind of, you know, talked about before and... Yeah. So that's like, why [00:56:41] S5: is X... I mean, X is incredible. We do ourselves a disservice if you're not engaging on X. Yes. The magic thing about x is people take their hardest earned secrets and they share them as marketing. Mhmm. Like, that is what happened on x. So, like, you know, the... All the secrets you'd typically have to go to Soma and be at a party, at a peptide party at 2AM to hear that secret. [00:56:59] S1: Yeah.
00:56:59 · Sam, S5, Kosta
[00:56:59] S1: Yeah. [00:57:00] S5: Now some based and non is just posting it, and you can read it from anywhere. So I think you could be a part of the conversation in a way that you never would have been before. Yes. And you can also insert yourself in the conversation. Right? There's so many people because I think what is high status on x is intellectualism, and that doesn't require credentials and status in the way that historically has. So it's just such a powerful playground to, you know, to not be involved in it is a huge miss. [00:57:24] S0: What can we [00:57:25] S1: do to get Europeans on X? [00:57:27] S5: Well, I think you should be sending them posts and ask them to reply to them. You know, let's like get people to engage around specific topics and conversations because a lot of the best thinking is going to come from Europeans. How can it not? But I don't know that they've been invited to engage. It's just a sort of sandbox abstraction.
00:57:27 · S5, Kosta
[00:57:27] S5: Well, I think you should be sending them posts and ask them to reply to them. You know, let's like get people to engage around specific topics and conversations because a lot of the best thinking is going to come from Europeans. How can it not? But I don't know that they've been invited to engage. It's just a sort of sandbox abstraction. [00:57:42] S0: I'd love to move the conversation to agents. We can get into consumer agents. I want to get your take on a couple of things. But before we do that, we had the chief data reporter at the Financial Times on the show yesterday. Think it was John, just published this really cool breakdown around productivity in general across a number of different countries and AI's impact on that. The graph shows, and I'm paraphrasing slightly, but like there's a general uptick, but the uptick happens around 2022. But this is sort of like as GPT is being released 2022, 2023. But the uptick was already a straight line up. So, like his argument was the fact that like AI is not the sole driver in productivity across the board. There are a number of different variables. But one point he's mentioned at the end of the conversation that I found really interesting was we haven't even unlocked the next era of AI in terms of like agentic workflows for the whole economy and the impact that will have on productivity. I'd love to get your take on what happens to the economy of work, what happens to general labor when we do unlock agentic work for the masses?