etn.
01:03:29 · Fabian, S5, Sam
[01:03:29] S6: but it's [01:03:29] S5: it's it's very interesting how so many interested parties have been telling us to own intelligence, not rent it. Yeah. You know, Karp, Satya, and others. And I... I'm actually on the other side of that where I think for most companies, there almost is no alpha in knowing everything that they know. Like, if we knew everything about our arch nemesis, could we replicate them? Of course not. You know, if Domino's Pizza knew everything about Papa John's, could they replicate their business? No. They would be pointed to different directions, FedEx and UPS. We see this with banks all the time. Yeah. The entire team will leave JPMorgan and go to Morgan Stanley. Does Morgan Stanley become JPMorgan or substitute them? Of course not. So I think unless you're developing drugs or doing things that are very sort of IP index, I just don't think there's that much alpha in the intelligence of how a company works. I think it's an idiosyncratic combination of distribution plus brand plus product plus know how plus assumptions. So in that world, actually, I think that kind of Microsoft is is relatively well positioned, but I think they may be over telling the story. [01:04:26] S1: Yeah. Oh, interesting.
01:04:26 · Sam, Kosta
[01:04:26] S1: Yeah. Oh, interesting. [01:04:27] S0: Would love to move to move towards agents. I had a bit of a meltdown on the show the other day because I'm so bearish on instinct. And I'm so bearish on instinct because when we look at them maybe competing with Muse, I had this thesis where they're playing like this multiplayer game right now. It's Muse, it's Instinct, it's a number of these other consumer agents. But ultimately, it's a game of chicken, of like who can stack the most compute and just funnel that out and have that platform. It's not going to be paid. They're just sort of growth at all cost type of thing. I can't see a world in which Muse doesn't win that war. And after they finish playing that multiplayer game, they play a single player game where they are the only person left. But then they have to crack the adoption criteria for general consumers who don't sit outside of AI. I can't see how an instinct survives that battle because they'll have to keep raising of the 30,000,000,000 valuation they were looking at recently. [01:05:16] S1: Talks of 30,000,000,000. [01:05:17] S0: You know, I I just can't see them winning this race. I just can't see them winning that battle. I'd love to get your take on who is gonna be the winner.
01:05:17 · Kosta, S5, Fabian
[01:05:17] S0: You know, I I just can't see them winning this race. I just can't see them winning that battle. I'd love to get your take on who is gonna be the winner. [01:05:23] S5: I... So there's a cost question. There's an adoption question. So on the cost question, I guess the real question is how quickly do costs deflate? Of course, you can raise more capital, but things like JEV, I'm not sure if you guys have seen the demos of JEV and decision models operating web pages. I mean, it... It's incredible. It's lightning fast, and it's 400 x cheaper than frontier browser use. So it's possible we'll have these discontinuities in cost that actually make the model work. For me, the more interesting question is actually adoption question. You know, Muse came out. I think Zuck said 10,000,000 people have installed Muse with heavy, heavy cross promotion. My estimate is there's maybe a few million actives for all of these products collectively. I think the insight that's working is that this is a way that people like to use computers and use intelligence. But I don't know that any of them has really strong product market fit yet. Cause we all have this backlog of tedious tasks, and there's incredible satisfaction in getting them done, but it takes like two weeks. [01:06:17] S6: Yeah. Yeah. [01:06:17] S5: Yeah. And now you're sort of like, how do I incorporate this into my life, my social fabric? And I don't think any product has the answer yet.
01:06:17 · S5, Kosta, Sam
[01:06:17] S5: Yeah. And now you're sort of like, how do I incorporate this into my life, my social fabric? And I don't think any product has the answer yet. [01:06:22] S0: Yeah. I saw a funny thing on this. Was like, my favorite... One of my favorite things to do to watch someone squirm is ask ask ask a consumer agent founder what their favorite use case is. And it's all the same thing. Right? It's always been... [01:06:33] S5: It's like the crypto thing. Yeah. What are the use cases, bro? [01:06:37] S0: Where's the utility? [01:06:38] S5: It's super it looks it's super exciting. There's something there. [01:06:41] S0: Yeah. I know. I agree. Let's not laugh at [01:06:42] S1: How are using? Are you using any of them? [01:06:45] S5: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I use... I I... So I actually use Grok bots a lot. Cool. I mean, I use them all for different things. Yeah. So I use... I end up using Grok bots a bunch because it lets me intersect my work in professional. And I think the roster system works well for power users, but I don't know that that's the right setup for most consumers. Again, I think that these things are gonna diverge. I mean, all the areas of, like, seeming substitution, everything from image models to coding models to decision models, we've seen divergence, and these things that were supposed to kill each other are now just serving different use cases. The same is gonna happen with personal agents, I [01:07:19] S1: Yeah, yeah. Interesting.
01:07:19 · Sam, Kosta, S5
[01:07:19] S1: Yeah, yeah. Interesting. [01:07:20] S0: Maybe one last one before we have our next guest on. What are you most excited about right now? Where is the I asked James earlier the same question. Where is the next multibillion, multi trillion dollar company come out? It could be in ten years. It could be in five years. It doesn't have to exist today. I think you asked Michele a similar question yesterday. What is that company for you? [01:07:39] S5: I don't know. For me, I'm very intellectually stimulated by the agent swarms and teams concept. I think just exploring that as a way to organize and execute work because there's so many implications of a parallelization, entropy, sort of specialization. I'm very, very curious to see what it means when we apply intelligence organized in that way to our hardest problems. [01:08:00] S1: Yeah. Interesting. [01:08:00] S0: Anish, thank you so much. [01:08:02] S5: That's great. Pleasure. Pleasure. My brother. [01:08:04] S0: You're a legend. Absolute pleasure. I'll see you later as well. [01:08:07] S5: Dude, I loved how geeked out you were about the magic last night. [01:08:10] S1: Dude, that guy's that guy's generation. Good as number. [01:08:12] S0: Hey. Yeah. Yeah. We we followed each other on Instagram. Out. [01:08:15] S1: He he knows the arsenal team. Does he? Yeah. Yeah. He's good friends with, like, soccer. And I was like, dude, that's awesome. Like... [01:08:22] S5: You want us to invite him tomorrow?
01:08:22 · S5, Sam, Kosta, Fabian
[01:08:22] S5: You want us to invite him tomorrow? [01:08:23] S1: I I said I'm going to the arsenal game. He was like, I can't come. And I was like, okay. Otherwise... Yeah. Otherwise, I would have brought him. [01:08:30] S0: Cheers, dude. We've got Fabian joining us, our last guest of the day. Fabian, cofounder at Front Sense. Fellows. Dude, how are we? So good to have you on, mate. So good to have you on. Dude. Appreciate [01:08:40] S1: it. Appreciate it. [01:08:41] S0: Headset there. Feel free to chuck it on. You and I were having a great chat last night. Admittedly, I was drinking probably too much wine. So it was relatively cloudy. So I'm happy that we've got an opportunity to do this, and we can talk about it more. Do you wanna maybe just give an introduction to yourself, the company, the setup that you've got right now? I was fascinated by it last night. [01:09:01] S6: Yeah. Thank you so much. Have you guys recovered from losing to FADO last night? [01:09:05] S1: Oh, really? Talking about it. [01:09:07] S0: I didn't... I thought I asked him for the camera. I asked him for a photo when I left. I didn't realize it was him at first, and it wasn't until James put in the chat, like, the Fatal Halt session is starting. And I realized when we were playing, but I didn't wanna fanboy in front of everyone. [01:09:20] S1: As soon as, like, it it got later it got later. You you were there later. Right? And then it it started again later, I think everyone was just asking him quite... Like, was just like everything was directing towards him in terms [01:09:30] S0: of So insane.