00:49:05 · S2, Charlie Gearside, Adam Miller
[00:49:05] S2: I think something that I wanna ask you about is that, you know, this vision that you've outlined of, like, how we get more towards a prosperous Australia, it feels very much to do with, like, VC backed companies. Yeah. Where do you see, like, the role of VC backed versus the role of bootstrapped or micro entrepreneurship? [00:49:21] S0: Yeah. I I talked about this a little bit in my in my first video, actually, which is, like, essentially that all business is good business and that, like, there's this tendency in VC to, like, look down on, like, what they call lifestyle businesses. I call them cash flow businesses, but, like, all businesses are good businesses. Being sustainable is... Like, slow and sustainable is how a lot of people like to work. And, like, these companies are ultimately still creating jobs and, like, a lot of the time can be innovative as well. Yeah. So, like, we should definitely encourage people to start any business and, like, people will roll their eyes at, like, oh, Do we really need another bakery? And it's like, hell, yeah, man. Like, that... The the flow on effects from what people learn, you know, doing that bakery, working on that bakery, like, plus the croissants. [00:50:11] S1: Yeah. Like, [00:50:11] S2: we we need that. I mean, they create Australian culture. [00:50:14] S1: Hell yeah. The bakeries. [00:50:15] S2: Let's go. [00:50:16] S0: A good croissant is so easy to find. Like, it's actually, like, crazy. I feel like you could be able [00:50:23] S1: look at some...
00:50:23 · Adam Miller, S2, Charlie Gearside
[00:50:23] S1: look at some... [00:50:23] S2: And there's noneconomic impacts. Right? Like, you could say that about, like, cafes in a lot of city suburbs. You could say there's relatively perfect competition and stuff. Yeah. Maybe they're a hard business to run. I actually think a lot of those businesses are harder to run than a lot of startups, but, you know, that's a that's a separate story. Like, you're... You have a lot of competition. You have really thin margins. You have very low, like, margin for error. You have all these independent factors like the weather and, like, if it rains for a week and be... You know, all these things. So that that... That's a side point. But I do think that there's, like, cultural impacts. Right? There's cultural impacts of having third spaces and cafes and, like, you know, there's the impact that now Australian coffee is world famous. And there... There's these elements that can create a culture, which I think Australia has been sometimes lacking in in the past? [00:51:08] S0: It's actually a really good point. It's like, are there are there other aspects culturally, like, important aspects to, like, business beyond just, like, profit and sales and growth? Yeah. It's a great point. Like, filmmaking is, like, a good example of that. Right? It's like, what's happened to Australia's film industry? You can almost, like, map our ability to produce interesting films to, like... Sorry, Tom. Like, I don't think any interesting films have been made [00:51:34] S1: in
00:51:34 · Adam Miller, Charlie Gearside
[00:51:34] S1: in [00:51:34] S0: Australia since 2000 and... Since 2003. So... Alright. There's lots of stuff happening like Byron Bay, you know, like, you use or... Oh, back up Gold Coast kinda thing? Yeah. Yeah. Around there. I know, like, Jacob Elordi and a lot of Mad Max. Yeah. That's all government subsidized, though. It's like... So, like, we get, like, the... And this is a massive tangent, like, it's kinda interesting. Like, all the... Like, we essentially... That's government funded. It's... Like, the government's funding the film industry to bring, like, a big American films here to, like, essentially prop up that industry. But, like, in terms of what are the Australian films and directors and stories like Baz... Yeah. Like, Baz, I mean probably a part of that was filmed in a shot. Yeah, dude. Like, Baz is a great example, but he, like, came up in the nineties with, like, all our, like, the the current... Like, your George Millers, your Mad Maxes and stuff. Like, who's that coming through that's kinda symptomatic of, like, the bigger sort of issue Australia faces? [00:52:41] S1: I wanna turn the tides a little bit to the idea that I'm sure you had to sacrifice a lot as a founder over six years, and it probably wasn't a lot of free personal time you had to pursue, I don't know, all the things that are interesting in your mind, which I feel like there's a [00:52:55] S0: lot. Yeah.
00:52:55 · Charlie Gearside, Adam Miller, S2
[00:52:55] S0: lot. Yeah. [00:52:56] S1: What are some of the other ways you wanna spend your time now that you've got a bit more time? What are those rabbit holes you wanna go down? What are the things you wanna learn? Things you wanna try? [00:53:04] S0: Yeah. So you're right. Like, basically, you don't have a hobby. You don't have time for hobbies and, like, you let some friendships fall by the wayside, which really suck. [00:53:16] S2: You become a very less interesting person as well, [00:53:18] S0: right, because there's not much to talk about. Yeah. You're just, like, dialing in. Yeah. Like, honestly, it's it's a really, like... Yeah. You're so right. And I think once you sort of... So we don't wanna diminish that because, like, that's almost a feature, not a bug, right, of building a company. Yeah. But I think knowing once you're through that phase and you've got... You've built something, maybe you have a little bit time... A little bit more time for balance. And for me, it's like I've had a... Like, I've got a three year old now. So I've been able to spend, like, be a primary carer in the last sort of six months, which has been... Like, we talk about deep tech being hard, cafes being hard. Like, man, stay at home dad is fucking hard. Yeah. So that's been good. And then in terms of hobbies, I've tried to, like, pick up the most, like, white boy hobbies ever. Sailing? Right? Yeah. Like Padel. Sailing, which is weird for, like, a public school boy. Right? Yeah. It's like never been on a on a boat, but it's never seen the ocean. [00:54:19] S1: No. And
00:54:19 · Adam Miller, Charlie Gearside, S2
[00:54:19] S1: No. And [00:54:24] S0: and, like, I bought golf clubs, I haven't been, like, playing any golf. I I think you just realized that, like... You did Annapurna. Right? Yeah. Did a did a dreck in Nepal [00:54:35] S2: Yeah. [00:54:35] S0: With some mates. Yeah. Yes. That was good. Like, yeah, it's been nice having a bit more balanced and, like, I think that's... You know how we talked about earlier, we talked about, like, this burnout, this, like, low low grade, like, malaise. If you... You really have to be better at setting those boundaries if you wanna be, like, a really, like, creative thinker, I think. And, like, you can't grind and have creative thoughts at the same time. [00:55:01] S2: Yeah. Some of those things that's easy to say in retrospect in... But when you're in the moment Yeah. It's so hard. Right? [00:55:06] S0: And I think, like like, some people are good at setting boundaries and like... And I think that's got a lot to do with, like... You know, how we talked a little bit about the characteristics of the best CEOs Yeah. Being able to sort of, like, disconnect from them... From the detail Yeah. Is sort of, like, provides you that mental sort of space to actually have those creative thoughts which you need to.
00:55:06 · Charlie Gearside, S2, Adam Miller
[00:55:06] S0: And I think, like like, some people are good at setting boundaries and like... And I think that's got a lot to do with, like... You know, how we talked a little bit about the characteristics of the best CEOs Yeah. Being able to sort of, like, disconnect from them... From the detail Yeah. Is sort of, like, provides you that mental sort of space to actually have those creative thoughts which you need to. [00:55:26] S2: Yeah. Yeah. Charlie, we've covered a lot of ground. We've covered, like, you know, your journey with Euc, why kind of you transitioning on kind of these big macro questions about where Australia is going, which has been interesting because me and Adam, we discussed a lot of this stuff privately, but I think with the people we bring on the show, sometimes we're very specific in the tech world. If you were to kind of give us advice, you know, who are fair few years earlier in the journey than you, and what would you what would you say to us? [00:56:01] S0: Yeah. I think... I mean, this this would come out of my own sort of failures, but it's like trust your people earlier. Mhmm. And I think, like, the times where I've been burning myself out or, like, not not at my best was when I was, like, too micromedigy. And, like, you've you've got awesome people and it's like, give them the tools, set the visions, and step back. And I think, I mean, you boys have talked to so many people now that you'd... You know, you've got all the you've got all the playbooks. Right? [00:56:40] S1: Just in the duo. [00:56:41] S0: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.