00:27:08 · Ezra Klein
[00:27:08] S2: have sell on it. Both of those guys is they're bad politicians. And the and Ramaswamy here, think, has, like, a particular arc where he could have lost this election in an honorable way, and he decided to lose it in a maximally dishonorable way. And it was just a grotesque, awful, immoral thing to do that covered... That should cover Ramaswamy in shame. But I would say that... I I see this sometimes with Vance. I see it with Ramaswamy. I see it with a bunch of Republicans where they kinda speak Trump with an accent, that Trump has this cruelty to him, this outrageousness. But because it's natural to him, he actually knows where the lines are. He knows how to deliver it in a way where people don't take it exactly that seriously. Like, he's done some stuff that is pretty gross in his time, quite a lot of stuff that is very, very gross, but he has a finesse to it that these guys who are mimicking him as if they are like a like a like a GPT three level LLM. Right? Like, smart, but without any art to it whatsoever, has, like, no feel for the situation. And then it just comes out horrible. Right? Like, horrible and cruel, and it's like a silent room, you know, where nobody's laughing. And and that's that race. And, you know, Vance runs into this kind of problem too. Right? Like, dogs and cats thing is, like, a example of this for JD Vance, where they... I think they think they're doing what Trump is doing, and they don't understand they're not. And the thing here about them, speaks to maybe to to kind of tie this a little bit to our main conversation here, a big problem the tech right is gonna have. The tech right could only really survive as a factional player in a broader Republican ecosystem in which they're completely, like, inhuman and bizarre views about how to treat other people were not dominant. Right? They could have a lot of influence, so they were the smart players in the coalition. They had a lot of money. But ultimately, the thing was run by this guy with animal charisma and, like, magnetic cunning. And when you kind of reverse foreground and background here and put them and their people in the front, it goes really, really badly. Because what the noncollege white working class is looking for is not Vivek Ramaswamy. It it is just not the not the brief. And I don't think this is where, like, the politics is going.
00:29:48 · Ezra Klein, Erin Griffith, Max Read
And I think you you see in the failure of some of these candidates and in the problems I think that JD Vance himself is going to have, like, where the tech right is very, very, very fragile, which is that it doesn't understand and often doesn't seem to like human beings, to say nothing of the kinds of people who will need to to vote for things, and it doesn't wanna listen to them. And that's not how you win in politics. [00:30:17] S4: It's kind of wild seeing them learn this in real time because it does feel like in 2024, they just had this, like, awakening where they realized, oh my god. We are so rich. And the amount of money we have, if you apply it to politics, is absurd. Like, our money goes so far in politics. Like, fair shake, you know, one of the largest packs ever supporting crypto things. The the amount of money they actually raised was just a drop in the bucket for, you know, some of these billionaires and the companies that that donated to it. But now they're starting to learn... Ezra, like, this is a great point. They're they're starting to learn that it it takes more than money. [00:30:54] S1: So let's pause for a sec and look forward. I I kinda wanna game out or at least speculate about what's coming next. Two years ago, we were talking about a big vibe shift in Silicon Valley. I'm wondering whether or not we're vibe shifting back again and what the sort of early signs are. I wanna ask in particular, Erin, I'm wondering what you're seeing in sort of the the early days after the results, how investors and other Silicon Valley figures are reacting to this.
00:30:54 · Max Read, Erin Griffith
[00:30:54] S1: So let's pause for a sec and look forward. I I kinda wanna game out or at least speculate about what's coming next. Two years ago, we were talking about a big vibe shift in Silicon Valley. I'm wondering whether or not we're vibe shifting back again and what the sort of early signs are. I wanna ask in particular, Erin, I'm wondering what you're seeing in sort of the the early days after the results, how investors and other Silicon Valley figures are reacting to this. [00:31:20] S4: Well, first of all, we're seeing a victory lap from the likes of Reid Hoffman. [00:31:24] S1: Yeah. For sure. [00:31:25] S4: You know? And and and it's just... It's still a little bit confusing because he's out there saying, we should get money out of politics. And while he's, you know, one of the biggest left left ring donors in this in this last cycle. So that's that's a little odd. I I think it's gonna take a little bit of... A little while to to to shake out. I mean, maybe they're all gonna, you know, hire their lobbyists and sort of, like, buddy up to people on the left and and figure out, like, how to get their companies well positioned for this next moment. But I think culturally, we're still gonna see people hanging out and and espousing their their right wing ideas. I don't I don't know that I don't know that this big forgetting that everyone's talking about is is gonna happen as as rapidly. But, Ezra, I'm sure you you have thoughts.
00:31:25 · Erin Griffith, Ezra Klein, Max Read
[00:31:25] S4: You know? And and and it's just... It's still a little bit confusing because he's out there saying, we should get money out of politics. And while he's, you know, one of the biggest left left ring donors in this in this last cycle. So that's that's a little odd. I I think it's gonna take a little bit of... A little while to to to shake out. I mean, maybe they're all gonna, you know, hire their lobbyists and sort of, like, buddy up to people on the left and and figure out, like, how to get their companies well positioned for this next moment. But I think culturally, we're still gonna see people hanging out and and espousing their their right wing ideas. I don't I don't know that I don't know that this big forgetting that everyone's talking about is is gonna happen as as rapidly. But, Ezra, I'm sure you you have thoughts. [00:32:14] S2: It's not obvious to me if in, like, a vibe shift, you know, back in the other direction. Like, okay. Mark Zuckerberg takes off the chain. You know, you have, like, some things like that happen. But in the way that Andreessen and Musk and some of these other figures have become kind of, like, influencers, right, they all became tech, you know, online influencers, do you have a group of them, you know, with maybe Reid being among those people, who can do that, you know, in the other direction given the kind of headwind they're against? You know, in some ways, I think this is, like, a good moment to be like a Satya Nadella. Right? A [00:32:50] S4: Just Neutral. [00:32:50] S2: Like, a normal tech CEO. [00:32:53] S1: Yeah.
00:32:53 · Max Read, Ezra Klein, Teddy Schleifer
[00:32:53] S1: Yeah. [00:32:53] S2: Right? Who doesn't seem to be, like, out there trying to be a kind of comic book villain or, you know, a podcaster. Right? Like, just like somebody who runs the company in a seemingly normal way, I think that is gonna be, like, the the play. I I don't see there emerging a kind of left wing analog to the all in guys. [00:33:15] S1: Yeah. I think that's true. I mean, I would also suggest, like, part of what we're seeing as we've already been discussing is a is a collection of of liberal to left politicians who are pretty well versed in tech and tech criticism beyond a kind of anti oligarchical stance. I mean, we already sort of swooned over AES's sixty Minutes interview where he's able to talk about diffusion, but not in a way that suggests that he's fully bought in. I mean, one of the really interesting contrasts between this blue wave election and the one in, say, 2008 is, you know... I mean, maybe I'm only speaking for myself, but I think we all associate Obama and the Obama administration with Silicon Valley in the sort of 20... Tech industry of the twenty tens. Oh, yeah. And now we're looking at a a Democratic Party that no longer has the same relationship to the tech industry. And so, you know, I I I... I'm interested not just in what what CEOs emerge as, you know, normal or even liberal leaning or whatever, but also what politicians emerge and how their relationship to tech is gonna unfold over the next few years. [00:34:14] S3: And it [00:34:15] S1: feels like... Go ahead.
00:34:15 · Max Read, Ezra Klein, Erin Griffith
[00:34:15] S1: feels like... Go ahead. [00:34:16] S2: I think the flip side of that is also for the Democratic Party, and this is gonna be harder in this period, which is what do they want from tech as opposed to just, like, what do they not want from tech. Right? They don't want billionaire and oligarchical influence. They don't want AI to take all your jobs or kill the human race or whatever it might be. They don't want the, you know, effects on, you know, utility rates and and and and water and and the environment. But if you go back a couple years, and and I thought a lot about this, you know, in terms of the work I was doing in this period, when climate was the issue, there was a sort of natural union emerging between the Democratic Party and and an area of tech. I mean, there's some alternative universe where Elon Musk who makes solar panels and Teslas, like, just as a normie Democrat and remains a normie Democrat and is, like, very influential from that perspective. [00:35:04] S4: What a world.