Y Combinator Startup Podcast
00:38:42 · Paul Copplestone, Garry Tan, S3
[00:38:42] S0: You obviously know about eval's, and you can improve your software because you're, like, wrapping this framework around it. Like, do you think that in the future, builders will have to actually know about these type of things? [00:38:54] S1: Or... Maybe not. I mean, honestly, I feel like we're so early that, you know, I'm just messing around. Yeah. And, you know, I like doing it in open source, and someone else... You know, I hope someone looks at that and says, like, oh, I can apply that. You know? Like, we're... I think we're literally coming up with the primitives on how to use this stuff right now. Yeah. I mean, I remember earlier in the year, you know, reading about Steve Yegge's software factories and things like that, and then not being able to totally figure it out. And it's like, oh, no, I feel like now I've cobbled together something that works for me at least. [00:39:24] S0: Yeah. [00:39:25] S3: Yeah. When we had Boris Cherny here, his vision of the future of coding was more like, you just talk to Claude like a friend, and you don't have to know about evals and all all this all this stuff. And, like, Claude just, like, figures out how to build the thing that you have in your mind.
00:39:25 · S3, Paul Copplestone, Garry Tan
[00:39:25] S3: Yeah. When we had Boris Cherny here, his vision of the future of coding was more like, you just talk to Claude like a friend, and you don't have to know about evals and all all this all this stuff. And, like, Claude just, like, figures out how to build the thing that you have in your mind. [00:39:41] S0: I've got this domain name, openusd.dev, and it's because there's actually a file format called open usd, and I collect domain names. And then suddenly, Stripe and Visa and everyone Yeah. Announced open usd. And I was like, oh, I better put this domain to use now. But I never had time to to use it. So I was chatting to the dot and it's like developed this, like, developer site with the ecosystem and everything. And I was just chatting to it on my computer and then like, as I was winding down my day, I called it on my phone, like, as I'm getting to bed, which sounds sus, but I'm... I promise I'm [00:40:17] S1: just Checking in.
00:40:17 · Garry Tan, Paul Copplestone
[00:40:17] S1: just Checking in. [00:40:18] S0: Just coding with it. And I was, like, saying, I don't like the information architecture of how, like, the ecosystem links to the the use cases. Can you make some suggestions? And it did. And I said, okay. Yeah. Implement them. And then twenty seconds later, it said, oh, yeah. Okay. I've done it. Do you wanna refresh? And I refreshed the site, and it was really well written, and everything was linking together, and it's hooked up the SEO type stuff. And so I haven't done all the classic stuff that I'd have to do traditionally. I've just been chatting to it, and it really felt like one of those moments where I was... I I sort of saw a glimpse of the future. [00:40:56] S1: I mean, you can do that because you know what you want to build. [00:40:59] S0: That's the thing. Yeah. So, like, I obviously have a background in engineering. So I kind of know how to prompt it, but I'm trying to not say anything. I'm trying not to, like, point it towards GitHub or anything like that. And I'm trying to code like a like a normie or someone will do next year so that I know it's basically so I can dog food Supabase and know that, oh, is it going to have a good time with Supabase in one year's time?
00:40:59 · Paul Copplestone, Garry Tan
[00:40:59] S0: That's the thing. Yeah. So, like, I obviously have a background in engineering. So I kind of know how to prompt it, but I'm trying to not say anything. I'm trying not to, like, point it towards GitHub or anything like that. And I'm trying to code like a like a normie or someone will do next year so that I know it's basically so I can dog food Supabase and know that, oh, is it going to have a good time with Supabase in one year's time? [00:41:27] S1: Yeah. It's funny for Boris to say, like, oh, I I just wanted to do it automatically. And like, certainly, once it's into distribution, like, literally the model has it, you know, in its weights, it can do it. But until then, it needs, like, some markdown or something. You just... Like a lit... Like, not even a lot of prompting, like, small amounts of prompting. It can just do it. I... We're entering this very strange moment in society, I think, where, like, it sounds like RSI really is here, and it's like going from the 20% to 80% moment of like, AI research is just happening in sort of these... Inside these loops, inside, you know, Claude Code or Codex or wherever it is. And then simultaneous to that, like, society doesn't really have enough people like you, Paul, who, like, know what to build and how to ask it. And so it's like unstoppable force meets immovable object right now. Like, the capabilities, the models are, like, going parabolic, and then the number of people who know how to actually have an impact on society with it is, like, more or less constant.
00:42:36 · Paul Copplestone
[00:42:36] S0: Yeah. And want to be kind of excited by it. I I think that's the other thing. I think a lot of people are getting paranoid, but I'm genuinely excited about what the future could be for a lot of people. A lot of my previous startups were focused on like blue collar workers and, like, people who... I was wrapping tech around a lot of people who just had to work a lot of their life, you know. And I... The thing that I really love about Supabase is that it's, like, see a lot of entrepreneurship because of the platform. And so I can see this future where actually there is going to be so much more entrepreneurship, and it's actually quite a fulfilling lifestyle for a lot of people. So I'm pretty pumped about 2027, actually. As long as we can keep this cadence up and avoid a few few crazy events, then then it should be a fun ride for a lot of people.
00:43:32 · Garry Tan, Paul Copplestone
[00:43:32] S1: We're seeing this moment where vertical SaaS founders actually are kinda struggling with raising series a's, you know, when you're subscale at, like, you know, five to ten mill ARR even, which, like, historically is a lot of ARR. Yeah. That's like a guaranteed series a even, like, nine or twelve months ago. And today, it's like, I don't know. People are kinda, like, not really into it for vertical. Like, horizontal and AI investments, like, seems like it's totally green light, but like vertical SaaS people are really struggling. But it's also sort of happening right at the moment where you can get to 10 to 15 mil, you know, often 25, 30 mil, 50 mil, with like 10 or 15 people. And so at that point, like, you're very profitable at that point. [00:44:19] S0: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was like, if you got 15 people, 2,000,000 ARR per head, and with 50% margins, you're all making a million million a year. I mean, that's an amazing outcome for for a lot of people. Yeah. [00:44:31] S1: Simultaneous to that, we just do a lot of office hours with people who do... Like, they got the brass ring, and then they're bummed out that they can't raise the series a. And so, you know, many of my office hours there are just like, you're probably gonna look back on this as a blessing because you don't need the money. Like, time was, you had to raise like a $100,000,000 to get to like 30,000,000 a year in revenue because you just had to hire all these people, and now you don't have to do that.