00:22:55 · Michal Sestak
[00:22:55] S0: It is. Yeah. The main issue we have in Australia is that education agents are not allowed... Or not education agents. Anybody who doesn't have a license as a migration agent or lawyer is not allowed to provide any advice on any basis. So that obviously puts the education agents in a very, very tight spot, because on one hand, they do want to help the students, but on the other hand, they may be crossing they may be crossing the line where the law is. So as much as we are... As much as, for example, as as part of ICEF, we run training for agents, and we're trying to train the agents in understanding certain aspects of the student visa programme, but we have to be very careful how far we're going to push it. In Australia, pretty much the student visa is decided based on one document called the GS, the genuine student requirement. That's submission, which a student needs to write, file some evidence, etcetera. It's a bit of an art and I do train a lot of schools. A lot of schools hiring me to train their staff who are actually assessing those letters prior visa lodgement. I've recently run a webinar under ICEF for education agents. There was about a 100 agents attended the webinar. So we are really trying as much as we can, but we have to understand that government sees those agents, as I mentioned, as salesmen. They don't see them as any profession. They don't see them as people with certain qualifications, with certain degrees. So it is a very tricky situation. There's also very high staff turnover in those agencies. So I guess Shawn may confirm that or not, at least in Australia, it's the case. So it's a constant rotation of staff. So you have a council who's trained and he or she leaves, and then new one comes in, has no idea. And it is hard. So what are we trying to do and achieve in some way is for the government to recognize education agents as being more than just salesmen. And I guess self regulated industry with mandatory training and recognition would probably be one of the way forward. That's what ICEF is trying to push really.
00:25:08 · Martijn van de Veen
[00:25:08] S3: Yeah. Yeah. Craig, would you agree that governments tend to see agents as a salesman, as commercial entities, and that that causes an problem in the visa application process?
00:25:20 · Craig Riggs
[00:25:20] S4: Yeah, I think it's an issue. I think that as we go around the world in different destinations, I think it would be fair to say that for the most part, governments are not very engaged with agents at all. There's not a lot in the way of formal regulatory requirements around agencies for understandable reasons. It's hard for any one national government to regulate or enforce regulations organizations, private organizations of all size that operating in foreign jurisdictions. So there's a lot of practical constraints on where the role the government regulation can play here. I think that Michal makes an important point that the solution is therefore best to come from within the industry itself in the form of self regulation. And certainly, we've seen a lot of different mechanisms and movements in that respect in terms of agent training for Australia, for Canada, for other major destinations. There are an accumulating inventory of professional qualifications that agents can pursue across demonstrate the competence and qualifications of their staff and their organization. There are increasingly codes of conduct that are in place, some of which are enshrined in regulations in different countries, but many of which are essentially voluntary self regulating mechanisms within the industry. And then finally, there are also accreditation schemes for agencies. Basically, there are only a couple of these. ICEF offers one, the ICEF agency status. There is the AIRC accreditation program in The US. Those are examples of schemes that make an effort to evaluate and certify, essentially, the professional agencies in the market. And so we see that there is... If you add all up... That all up together, it is essentially a framework of different types of self regulatory mechanisms across the industry, but, and we see a lot of effort and increasing focus in those areas, but there's a lot of work still to be I think it would be fair to say.
00:27:26 · Martijn van de Veen, Shawn Silverstone
[00:27:26] S3: A lot of work has already started, right? You mentioned the self regulation, the agent trainings, the professional qualifications, the you know, codes of conduct that are in place, I think these are really good starting points for us as a sector to showcase our, you know, the trust that people can place in the work of the agencies and the professionals that they are. But Shawn, how can the international education sector work together also to advocate for more transparent and consistent visa policies across major study destinations? [00:27:57] S1: It's a very good question. You know, in k to 12, international students are a critical part of Canada's education pipeline, and current visa policies are really damaging the sector's long term sustainability. So some of the recommendations I'd give for policy improvement is is really a greater transparency and consistency in visa decisions to really restore confidence and faster processing for K-twelve students to avoid enrollment disruptions and really clear guidelines for custodianship approvals to prevent unnecessary refusal. So without these changes, Canada really risks losing its competitive edge to countries with more predictable and student friendly policies. And we're seeing that firsthand, I'm hearing it at a lot of these events that I've been attending recently. [00:28:44] S3: Now I can imagine. And and the same same question for you, Michal. What do you think the international education sector can do to work together and advocate for for more transparent and consistent visa policies?
00:28:55 · Michal Sestak
[00:28:55] S0: It's very interesting question. Transparent visa policies. I don't remember government that has been transparent about visa visa policies. I'll give you an example. As an ICEF board member, we've been traveling to Canberra, and we've met politicians on regular basis. When you ask them direct question, you get a politically correct answer, which means you don't get the answer. Yeah. They don't even know what they want. So when you ask them on this question, what do you guys... How would you describe an ideal student? What do you want the industry to do to comply with what your expectations are? And you get this very unclear answer. So, unfortunately, well, the reality is we have to be honest and upfront with the clients and then look, this is the situation. We can do our best. Nevertheless, the final word and the final decision is up to the government. And what has worked six months ago may not necessarily work today because of the changes. We have new government coming up hopefully soon in Canada and Australia. I see that as a very positive, and everybody's really looking forward to that. I think the stability is the word which everybody's seeking, but it's hard to get it. I don't I don't have a problem if the visa requirements are really hard and strict, but just keep them stable. Don't have ref... Visa refusals for a student from Japan, Turkey, Colombia, I don't know, Zimbabwe, where the refusal is literally copy paste. Right? That's not a policy. That's... That doesn't... That's that's it's nothing to do with the regulation, with the law, with the requirement. It's just someone said, oh, hang on a minute. We have to refuse 90,000 student pesos to hit our target for the pre election. So what can we do as an industry? Well, showcase how migration and students particularly are integral part of society of both countries, guess, Canada and Australia, and that we do need skilled migrants, which mostly turn out in Australia as international students at the beginning. So telling the government, look, yes, we understand that we need to control migration due to infrastructure limitations. And I get it. It's a unreasonable argument from the government, but give us some kind of a rules. We follow them to the dot, but don't change the rules every Monday, because that's... It's very difficult.
00:31:22 · Martijn van de Veen
[00:31:22] S3: Yeah, that's the demand indeed, as you mentioned, for stability, that demand for transparency, that demand to avoid all this uncertainty that exists in the market, right? Because that's never a good thing to have, And because it means that you cannot really prepare for what's coming if you don't know what is coming. So the one way to maybe avoid too much risk in student recruitment is of course and visa processing is of course diversification of source markets. Shawn, how important is that diversification of sourced markets becoming for eight to 12 institutions in light of visa uncertainties in traditional markets?