00:12:05 · Sebastian Johnson, Alan Chang
[00:12:05] S0: Agency is obviously something that comes through in the culture of the company externally. You scaled the team rapidly. How do you maintain that culture of agency and execution as you grow? [00:12:15] S1: We actually haven't scaled the team that rapidly. So if you look at this time last year, we were roughly, you know, just over 100 people. Yeah. So we've grown roughly two times in headcount. Yeah. So I wouldn't say we grew a lot in terms of headcount. So yeah, like we... Just to give you an idea, we have over 10 people in our recruitment team. And majority of them are focused on engineering hires. But we make two or three engineering hires a month. We'd love to make a lot more, but that's just the number of engineers that we're finding right now that we can... That meets our bar. [00:12:52] S0: Wow. And how do you think that's going to change over the course of this year, you know, as you go from, you know, 400,000,000, 500,000,000 to a billion? [00:12:58] S1: They kind of decouple revenue growth. Like, you can think of... The way I think about it is, like, when you hire a talented person, it's going to take, years for us to recoup our investment, right? So even if you hire even if I double the engineering team tomorrow, we're not going to see returns on that for a while, at least in the short term. We're simply investing long term. So yeah, like, what I wish we did was triple the engineering team last year, so we're going to see a much higher revenue growth this year.
00:12:58 · Alan Chang, Sebastian Johnson
[00:12:58] S1: They kind of decouple revenue growth. Like, you can think of... The way I think about it is, like, when you hire a talented person, it's going to take, years for us to recoup our investment, right? So even if you hire even if I double the engineering team tomorrow, we're not going to see returns on that for a while, at least in the short term. We're simply investing long term. So yeah, like, what I wish we did was triple the engineering team last year, so we're going to see a much higher revenue growth this year. [00:13:39] S0: And are you trying to factor that in this year then? Is that why you've got a recruitment team of 10 people? [00:13:43] S1: Yeah, we're trying to triple the recruitment team so we can... But again, hiring a great recruiter is also quite difficult. Hiring anyone great is is very difficult. [00:13:53] S0: And how how are you thinking about basing the team as you look to expand internationally? Are you looking at talent in The US, or are you going to say everything here in London? [00:14:01] S1: We're already hiring everywhere. [00:14:02] S0: Wow. Amazing. [00:14:03] S1: We are already hiring, like any talented person in the world right now, we And would want to if they want to relocate, we help them relocate. If they don't want to relocate, they can stay where they are. [00:14:17] S0: Amazing. The bar is just that high. Wherever you are will take you. Interesting. I want to talk about the two rounds that you raised last year, right? So you went from... You kind of became a unicorn, like, summertime.
00:14:17 · Sebastian Johnson, Alan Chang
[00:14:17] S0: Amazing. The bar is just that high. Wherever you are will take you. Interesting. I want to talk about the two rounds that you raised last year, right? So you went from... You kind of became a unicorn, like, summertime. [00:14:29] S1: I'll correct that. We actually raised around 24. That was just announced on '25. [00:14:33] S0: Oh, interesting. Okay. Fine. And then... Well, yeah. Very quickly after it was announced... Yes.... You then raised the $5,000,000,000 valuation. Yeah. What happened in between those two? Was that... Was the second round already ongoing when you announced the first No. Or it came off the back of that and preempted? How did that come about? [00:14:53] S1: It was... Yeah. It was led by our existing investor, Lower Carbon Yep. And Bulletin. So, I mean, yeah, they they were investors in us from from day one. Mhmm. So I guess they like what they saw, so they they they They [00:15:10] S0: wanted to get ahead of it. Yeah. And how did you find that process of raising that money then? Because I assume it was very easy, but were there negotiations around valuation? How did that play out? [00:15:18] S1: Fundraising is very, you know, time draining, as I'm sure a lot of entrepreneurs will say the same thing. They are trying to manage multiple stakeholders and make everyone happy. It's painful.: [00:15:34] S0: You don't enjoy it? No. You much prefer running the the business itself? [00:15:37] S1: 100%, yeah.
00:15:37 · Alan Chang, Sebastian Johnson
[00:15:37] S1: 100%, yeah. [00:15:40] S0: It seems like you've been actually... You you raised relatively low... A a low amount of capital for the business that you're building, which is both a combination of, like, hardware, software, the full stack. Have you invested a lot of your own money into this? Like, how have you managed to stay relatively capital constrained? [00:15:55] S1: By building a profitable business. So as of December last year, we've been profitable ever since. So we're generating single digit millions in profit a month. [00:16:10] S0: Amazing. And is that going to be a priority for you going forward? Is it important for you to maintain that profitability level? [00:16:17] S1: I think for us, it's actually not that important. We're happy to take a three year, five year, seven year view on return on investment. So if it means you know, going back to on profitability, we will do we will do it. Yeah. That being said, as I said, talent is a constraint, not capital. I I wish we were capital constrained. Right? If... I wish I could be like, okay. Let's raise a billion dollars, and we'll go 10 times faster. Right? Yeah. Reality is if there's a billion dollars in the bank account, like, our speed would not change. [00:16:53] S0: Yep. [00:16:56] S1: So... Yeah. So whilst in theory that's true, I don't think it will happen. [00:17:00] S0: Yeah, interesting. Mean, your ARR per FTE must be crazy. Right? Like, what is it, 2,000,000? Two and a half? Something like that. [00:17:08] S1: Something like that, yeah.
00:17:08 · Alan Chang, Sebastian Johnson
[00:17:08] S1: Something like that, yeah. [00:17:09] S0: That's insane. Mean, yeah. Have you tried to take a capital constrained view of everything outside of talent? You know, if you've been frugal in the way that you've... I mean, it sounds like marketing hadn't been a big expenditure. [00:17:19] S1: I'll say, like, we we are very, very cost conscious. Alright? Like, we have very, very rigorous cost controls. [00:17:30] S0: And [00:17:32] S1: I would say our cost discipline is much higher than the average start up. [00:17:36] S0: Interesting. One of the quick five questions I wanted to ask you is throughout your journey as a founder, what has been the biggest waste of money you've ever spent?: [00:17:45] S1: I'm trying to trace back the last few years, what mistakes did I make? I don't think I made any costly mistakes.: Interesting.: Not super costly. There's obviously like... I can probably find... I think there's a couple of examples where it's like $10.20 grand that is stupid.: Yeah.: For sure. But, like, I don't think we made any, like, very, like, super costly mistakes. [00:18:11] S0: Interesting. So it'd probably be talent. Right? Like, bad talent has probably been [00:18:14] S1: Yeah. But even bad talent, like, you realize pretty quickly. [00:18:17] S0: True. Yes. That is expensive. [00:18:17] S1: So I would say it's, like, more like a time cost than a financial cost. [00:18:20] S0: Yeah. Interesting. Has there been a standout decision that you've made that has been the biggest driver of ROI?
00:18:20 · Sebastian Johnson, Alan Chang
[00:18:20] S0: Yeah. Interesting. Has there been a standout decision that you've made that has been the biggest driver of ROI? [00:18:27] S1: Yeah. I can't think of a... Apart from top team, I can't think of another answer. [00:18:32] S0: That's it, top team. Interesting. Alright, yeah. I guess you haven't invested in marketing the same as other companies have, where I guess the risk is that you kind of burn a lot of cash or making a huge ROI on it. Back to the razors, Is this something that you looked for very early on in a VC partner? Were there like... Because I know Bolton were obviously a big Revolut backer. Was that good for you? Or was there certain things that you were looking for? Or is your view that VCs are probably not that value add, whatever? [00:19:02] S1: I think I've actually changed my mind on that. Like if you asked me two years ago, I'd probably give you an answer like VCs are not that value add, like money's money. But if you ask me today, I think beyond money, it's important to find an investor that is, you know, that have high EQ and that is willing to unassign your business. Yeah, because... Yeah, like, what's worse than no value add is, like, negative value add. Yeah. And, yeah, I've just seen more and more bad examples of VCs. So basically, beyond the money, work with people you like. [00:19:54] S0: Interesting. That's the most important thing. Yeah. You think you've got good investors like that that you get on with you like? [00:19:59] S1: I would say so, yeah.