00:00:59 · Ezekiel Iferia, Heather McLean
[00:00:59] S0: It's an honor to welcome you indeed. So let's get started. You spent twenty years in the US air force, you know, leading logistics and IT operations. But I'd like to know what drew you into the military in the first place, and you know, what did those twenty years teach you about leadership that you couldn't have learned in Yale's? [00:01:19] S1: Yeah. That's a great question. I think they taught me a lot about just trust and building trust with teams, and what that looks like when it's done in good ways and alternatively alternatively, what happens when it's done in bad ways. So I... One of the primary lessons that you learn, especially as a new leader, is you you learn about trust. And there's there's trust because you have a certain rank. That's like authority based trust. And then there's a type of trust that you earn that, you know, that's the kind of trust that really makes things move forward. That's the kind of trust that once you have it, people want to work with you. They want to perform well, and move the mission forward. And so just understanding those types of different trusts and how to build those, that was that was pretty well ingrained in my twenty years in military. And I'm not sure you learned that as well in the corporate world, or you might learn it a little more informally over time. [00:02:24] S0: Alright. So, you know, you've said that mission success always starts with people, you know, how you lead them, how you build trust, and how you show up for each other. So where did you... You know, where did that belief come from?
00:02:24 · Ezekiel Iferia, Heather McLean
[00:02:24] S0: Alright. So, you know, you've said that mission success always starts with people, you know, how you lead them, how you build trust, and how you show up for each other. So where did you... You know, where did that belief come from? [00:02:39] S1: I think it's just from experience. Right? Like, I I would see... And and a lot of this was watching good leaders and bad leaders. So when you see good leaders, you watch their behaviors, and you see how people react. And when you see bad leaders, you also learn a ton because you kind of see, oh, I'm not... I'm never gonna do that because that didn't work out and nobody liked that. And, you know, and you could see how people did not want to follow people with those bad leadership traits. So a lot of it was just experience and just picking up on the different cues. [00:03:15] S0: Alright. So after the air force, you joined World Wide Technology and built a 100 person team. So how did you find the, you know, transition from military leadership to corporate leadership? You know, what what was harder than you expected?
00:03:32 · Heather McLean
[00:03:32] S1: Right. That that was a little tough because, you know, doing certain things a certain way in the military, you can kind of walk into a new job and have certain expectations about how we're gonna operate together and how we're gonna talk to each other and communicate. And going into the civilian world, like, I didn't know how any of that stuff would work. So I really had to learn how does corporate America work, how does communication work, how do you work with your leaders, and is that... You know, how is that different? So that was definitely a challenge. You know, even something small like, what do I wear to work? Was a challenge because you're used to wearing a uniform every day. You don't even have to think about it. And now you have to think about this whole other new wardrobe, and how do I wear this, and what's what's okay to wear in a work... You know, workplace and what's not. So, you know, that can be something you won't usually even think about as part of your transition, but it's also just... It's very important to get that right as well. Yeah. Those are definitely some of the challenges. I think I think just learning how to interact with people in a different way was challenging for me. You know, when you're in the military and you're a leader, you're used to just saying, okay. We're gonna do this or please go do this. And it's not really questioned. You know? You might you might have a dialogue, but but usually those orders are gonna be followed. It's not, you know, you know, it's not like that in the real world. It's it's more like people questioning everything, and and you learning how to not be defensive about that, and more just learn like, oh, okay. I have to I have to understand. I have to be able to explain things a little bit better and differently than maybe I had to in the past, or I have to get more buy in from the team than I would have had to get in the past. So I had to learn some of those skills as I was growing up sort of in my new civilian role because it, you know, it just... Communication works a little bit differently in the military.
00:05:35 · Ezekiel Iferia, Heather McLean
[00:05:35] S0: Alright. Alright. Thank you for sharing that with us. So, you know, you you you walked away from a senior leadership role at one of the largest technology companies, you know, to build something from scratch. So what was the moment you knew corporate life was no longer enough? What did it take, you know, to actually make that leap? [00:05:59] S1: The moment for me was, you know, I'd been in... I'd I'd kinda started off as a project manager, worked my way up to a senior director role and had, you know, hundreds of people that I was helping to lead. And at at some point, I got just really burned out. I was in back to back meetings every day, all day, didn't find time to kinda work on the things that I wanted to work on or the things that I needed to work on. The thing for me was when I realized I'm not growing and learning as a person anymore. Right? I was just going through a lot of the the motions, going through the daily meetings, but but I wasn't learning new things. I was kind of fighting the same battles over and over, and I felt like I just kinda reached a ceiling in my advancement, and so that was when I realized something needed to change. Right? I was definitely burnt out, and it's definitely not growing as a person. So it wasn't it wasn't good for me anymore, and it probably wasn't giving my best to the organization at that point. So that was sort of the moment for me. And then, sorry, you had a second part of that question. What was the... You said something about what was the leap?
00:05:59 · Heather McLean, Ezekiel Iferia
[00:05:59] S1: The moment for me was, you know, I'd been in... I'd I'd kinda started off as a project manager, worked my way up to a senior director role and had, you know, hundreds of people that I was helping to lead. And at at some point, I got just really burned out. I was in back to back meetings every day, all day, didn't find time to kinda work on the things that I wanted to work on or the things that I needed to work on. The thing for me was when I realized I'm not growing and learning as a person anymore. Right? I was just going through a lot of the the motions, going through the daily meetings, but but I wasn't learning new things. I was kind of fighting the same battles over and over, and I felt like I just kinda reached a ceiling in my advancement, and so that was when I realized something needed to change. Right? I was definitely burnt out, and it's definitely not growing as a person. So it wasn't it wasn't good for me anymore, and it probably wasn't giving my best to the organization at that point. So that was sort of the moment for me. And then, sorry, you had a second part of that question. What was the... You said something about what was the leap? [00:07:11] S0: Yeah. You know, what did it take for you to actually make that leap?
00:07:11 · Ezekiel Iferia, Heather McLean
[00:07:11] S0: Yeah. You know, what did it take for you to actually make that leap? [00:07:18] S1: A lot of courage, I guess. I had to just to decide I was gonna do this. Right? So I kind of left without having a really good plan. I had a couple months of savings, I knew I didn't have to get a job right away. And then the more I thought about it, the more I was the more I can... Was convinced I wanted to build my own company instead of going into another corporate job. And so I really wanted to focus this new company on prioritizing the needs of people and the needs of our client above other things. And so that is sort of the the foundation that McLean Forrester is is built on. It was sort of came out of the frustration of corporate America and, you know, how corporate America really does prioritize profits. I wanted to see a company. I wanted to build a company that would really put people first and prioritize them. And so that's kind of... That's where we started. [00:08:15] S0: Alright. So, you know, you work with clients who know they need to do something with AI but don't know where to start. So what are, like, the first three questions you ask them?