00:25:23 · Brennand Pierce, Danny Fortson, Katie Prescott
[00:25:23] S9: No. They they would love it. Right. It's... I think we're probably maybe a year away for these earlier tasks to get it completely nailed so you can actually start ramping up production. [00:25:32] S8: And in terms of the China piece, I was at an event last year with the CEO of Boston Dynamics, and he was like, if you look at the scale of what is happening in China and also, like, the state support and kind of requirement that has come from the, you know, the government in Beijing, he's like, we are so far behind. Like, they are just gonna build way more robots for way cheaper. Like, can you give us a sense of what... Like, the comparison between the kind of UK slash Western state of the actual ability to make these things compared to what is happening in China and what that looks like going forward? [00:26:13] S9: Yeah. So luckily, I had firsthand experience like a bear. We we sell a lot of robots, and our two main rivals are actually Chinese. And this is where you see... When it comes to just pure bill of materials, you just can't compete with them because you get all the way from the bottom to the top Chinese sponsorship or subsidies. So they will get free land, they get free patents, [00:26:34] S4: they get... Cheaper hands.
00:26:34 · Katie Prescott, Brennand Pierce, Danny Fortson
[00:26:34] S4: they get... Cheaper hands. [00:26:35] S9: They get cheaper hands, but it it... It's the whole supply chain. It goes from subsidized batteries to subsidized raw material to factories given to them, to even the exporting. They don't... Maybe they do what they don't, but they probably don't pay as much export. It's just like all of this ecosystem where they can build robots about 30% cheaper. You know, as a Western company building in China, they could build it 30% cheaper. [00:27:00] S4: And do you have any advantage over people wanting to buy British technology? No. People being scared. Right. There's no sort of... Well, we hear from other tech companies that, you know, that because of the geopolitics at the moment, there are some people who try and avoid buying... [00:27:14] S9: No. It's funny. You hear a lot of companies will say, we'd rather buy Western because of security, and then you see six months later, they bought a Chinese robot because it's 40% cheaper. Yeah. And then I think it also comes down to the government's decided robotics is very key to their, whatever you call it. [00:27:33] S8: It's accorded their five year plan. Yeah. [00:27:35] S9: Yeah. So you you get the state where we talked about, alright, you need, like, hundreds or thousands of people to collect data. There's videos coming out of China where this Chinese government's like, great. We're just gonna build a a massive warehouse and put 5,000 people in there, collect data, and just give it to the robotic companies. And they have the
00:27:35 · Brennand Pierce, Danny Fortson, Katie Prescott
[00:27:35] S9: Yeah. So you you get the state where we talked about, alright, you need, like, hundreds or thousands of people to collect data. There's videos coming out of China where this Chinese government's like, great. We're just gonna build a a massive warehouse and put 5,000 people in there, collect data, and just give it to the robotic companies. And they have the [00:27:53] S8: Just an army of 5,000 people tying their shoes over [00:27:57] S9: and over. Exactly. And then you have in universities research in motors, and you have a, like, a pipeline of very good robotics and AI people. So they have this whole, you know, state Yeah. Machine. Machine grinding away. It'd be like... Whereas you do get, like, Silicon Valley has a lot of money, but it's a bit more fragmented where you have, like, obviously, figure, agility, and these companies. But you don't really have, like, a a European or an American government who's like, great. We're just going to hire 50,000 people to collect data and just make it open to our robotics companies. [00:28:29] S8: And I was gonna say just on that 30, that is 30% cheaper if you are manufacturing in China yourself? [00:28:36] S9: Yes. At the same time [00:28:37] S4: manufacturing Oh, really? [00:28:40] S8: What about manufacturing outside of China? [00:28:42] S9: Good luck. [00:28:43] S8: Is that, like, just not a thing, or is it, like, 10 times as much?
00:28:43 · Danny Fortson, Brennand Pierce, Katie Prescott
[00:28:43] S8: Is that, like, just not a thing, or is it, like, 10 times as much? [00:28:47] S9: We looked at it, like, four or five years ago. The problem you get is supply chain, so you even get to injection molding. So we went in in America and went around a couple of injection molding companies. But when you chat to them, it's like, well, all your plastic comes from China. All your molds, like, the people that actually make all these crazy molds to make the injection molded parts, the knowledge to actually make the... The machine that makes a machine is actually a very complex part. And when we spoke to them, they're like, yeah, we outsource that to China. So it's like, great. So even if you make the plastic part in America, the machine is is designed and built in China and shipped over. All the raw materials are made in China and shipped over. You pray a premium in America. You're like, why why wouldn't I just get the injection molded part? Then you do that for all of the parts. You're like, alright, we need a motor. And you're like, you could probably buy the same motor in Europe, but it's 50% more expensive. So you're like, well, if I gotta buy the motor, I'll buy it from China. And then if you do that, you're like, well, I might as well just build it in China. [00:29:46] S4: So end so end to end for you, you're manufacturing in China. Everything's coming from China, and it's 30% more expensive for you because you're a foreign company.
00:29:46 · Katie Prescott, Brennand Pierce, Danny Fortson
[00:29:46] S4: So end so end to end for you, you're manufacturing in China. Everything's coming from China, and it's 30% more expensive for you because you're a foreign company. [00:29:55] S9: Yeah. We we do some in Korea and Vietnam and other places like that, but primarily, a lot of the parts come from China. [00:30:02] S8: Right. So it's just... Is it fair to say then that basically the robotics industry is in China? [00:30:07] S9: For hardware, probably, yes. Yeah. Interesting. If you wanna compete with price. Yeah. I I don't think any Western company is really manufacturing them anywhere I Right. [00:30:18] S4: Right. There we go. [00:30:20] S9: No. That's Well, it's [00:30:21] S8: just interesting because when you think about... Because we talk about AI, you know, every week, and this is another area where China is just dominating. And if you believe that this is one of the kind of industries of the future, you would think that people would be concerned about that. [00:30:39] S9: I do think at the moment, I could be biased, but, you know, America and Europe probably is ahead at the moment in terms of software, in terms of foundational models coming out of NVIDIA. There's also, like, companies like PieZero, Real World, and some of these unskilled AI in America that are actually working on the AI models for the robot. And we we do have really good universities in Europe, you know, Oxford, Cambridge, Technical University, Munich, Switzerland, and things like that. You know...
00:30:39 · Brennand Pierce, Katie Prescott, Danny Fortson
[00:30:39] S9: I do think at the moment, I could be biased, but, you know, America and Europe probably is ahead at the moment in terms of software, in terms of foundational models coming out of NVIDIA. There's also, like, companies like PieZero, Real World, and some of these unskilled AI in America that are actually working on the AI models for the robot. And we we do have really good universities in Europe, you know, Oxford, Cambridge, Technical University, Munich, Switzerland, and things like that. You know... [00:31:10] S4: In that spirit, did you watch the recent Robot Olympics in China, or at least some of the stuff on YouTube? [00:31:17] S9: Oh, yes. Of course. [00:31:18] S4: What was your favourite event? [00:31:20] S9: I still quite like running because that was a lot of my PhD work. Really? [00:31:25] S4: Making robots run. [00:31:26] S9: Well, back then, we couldn't make them run. That was the point. [00:31:29] S8: So before we let you go, I'm gonna ask you to make a prediction. How long... The year is '20 x before you have a robot in your house that can make your fried egg and make your bed. [00:31:43] S4: And how long until they're doing the running Olympics without having to have a fire hose sprayed at them and and a crash mat at the end of them, of course. [00:31:50] S9: I I think for the home... For early adopters, I think 2035? [00:31:56] S4: 2035? [00:31:58] S9: That's Nine years? Ridiculous. Nine years or something like that. And also, that's far [00:32:02] S8: Hard things are hard, Katie. This is this is progress.