The Information's TITV
00:15:06 · Bradley Tusk
[00:15:06] S2: I think you're going to see legislation for sure. Legislation is going get put forward. I am sure it will pass the House. Whether or not the senate can get the 60 votes to invoke cloture and avoid a filibuster on it, I'm not sure, but I think there's a pretty good chance of it. A few things. So one will be safety. So that question there is who regulates frontier models and how do you regulate frontier models? As we know, Trump, created a self regulating entity, at the White House a few weeks ago with all the various CEOs, and that doesn't really mean anything. And so, you know, there's different approaches to it. The one that I've heard that I think at least makes the most sense is a FDA like model, which is if we can't take medicine until it is shown to be safe for human consumption, at least for some level of new frontier models that pose meaningful risk to safety and well-being of all Americans, having someone approve them, obviously in a much faster way than you would approve medication, makes sense. So I could see that moving forward. I could see an attempt by Congress to deal with the potential job displacement of AI through things like increased worker training and ways to help find people develop new types of skills. I could see regulations on things like everything from disclosure around chatbots to use of, AI for mental health, to use of insurance, and then a lot of other things like that, hiring decisions. So I think a lot will move forward. I just think that the odds of it becoming law are not particularly high.
00:16:33 · Akash Pasricha
[00:16:33] S0: Right. Okay. So let's move to some of these state specific issues. I mean, data centers are key here. I saw the local ballot measures. I mean, I don't know if they all went against data centers, I think it was pretty close, at least, Yeah. Based on what I'm look, I think before we get into sort of maybe specific states, how do you think big tech may at all change their tune? You know, there's this whole... We've seen how CEOs show up in different ways, depending on who is elected. Do you see any of that changing now?
00:17:11 · Bradley Tusk
[00:17:11] S2: Yeah. I mean, I I think what's interesting is when you look at the opposition, and it's bipartisan to data centers, it's not really about data centers. Right? Because the only credible argument against data centers will be one, consumers shouldn't have to subsidize the energy needs of data centers. I don't know any data center builder or hyperscaler that disagrees with that. Two, that the local water supply shouldn't be used for data centers. The point of a closed loop system is just a truck in the water unit originally, and it just circulates around and around and around in cools day. And third would be, you know, community benefits and just being part of the community you're in. None of these are particularly controversial or opposed by, you know, anyone involved in data centers. So the anxiety is just a general anxiety about the fear that AI will take your job, that it will hurt your kids, or it's a mode to keep saying over and over and over again, it's gonna kill us all. And it's gotta manifest itself in some way because data centers are tangible physical places that need permitting and zoning approvals. That's where the opposition goes. And so I I think what has to happen to change it is, yes, better politics, better community engagement by the data center builders. But I... And I think you've seen a lot of that. Companies like FluidStack and others are pretty progressive in that way. But at the same time, I think that there's just gotta be more of an appreciation, by the hyperscalers that, look, we understand that you're nervous about it, and here's what we're gonna try to do to work with you to make sure that we're safe. You know, emoting just scaring everyone does not accomplish anything. Or, you know, OpenAI running at just to say, AI is wonderful and it's gonna be so great for everyone. Until those things actually start happening, until cancer is cured, until carbon is removed from the atmosphere, people aren't going to really buy that. And so, they've got to really be a lot more upfront and open, not just about the risks, but how they're going to help solve them, prevent them.
00:19:06 · Bradley Tusk, Akash Pasricha
And if they are serious about self regulation, then the limits that they will impose on themselves, if they can't really force their competitors to do anything, to not release new frontier models that might be dangerous, even if it does put them in economic disadvantage. [00:19:21] S0: What do you make of the market being up this morning? Hyperscalers are trading up. Neo clouds are down. Oracle is kind of flat, which I think very much tells you something about how people think about Oracle. What do you make of that reaction?
00:19:21 · Akash Pasricha, Bradley Tusk
[00:19:21] S0: What do you make of the market being up this morning? Hyperscalers are trading up. Neo clouds are down. Oracle is kind of flat, which I think very much tells you something about how people think about Oracle. What do you make of that reaction? [00:19:33] S2: I mean, I I think that markets really hate uncertainty. And so when things are resolved, they feel a lot better. It's like people. Right? If you think about when... At least for me, and I I suspect, you know, I know you well enough to know that I suspect you're kind of similar here, which is when something bad happens, once you sort of process it, okay, here's how I'm gonna deal with this. And it might be bad, but you'll still deal with it. When you think something bad might happen and you're just worrying about it over and over again, that creates actually a lot more anxiety than dealing with the bad thing itself. I think markets are very similar. So when they didn't know it was going to happen, now they're like, okay, we know who won, we know what we're dealing with here. And by the way, you know, while I understand that Trump generally has been pretty good for the stock market, he's the most unpredictable force possible. And with both chambers now going to the Democrats, it really does rein him in, in many ways and limits at least the damage they think he could do legislatively. And so I think that they might actually like a little bit of it.
00:19:33 · Bradley Tusk, Akash Pasricha
[00:19:33] S2: I mean, I I think that markets really hate uncertainty. And so when things are resolved, they feel a lot better. It's like people. Right? If you think about when... At least for me, and I I suspect, you know, I know you well enough to know that I suspect you're kind of similar here, which is when something bad happens, once you sort of process it, okay, here's how I'm gonna deal with this. And it might be bad, but you'll still deal with it. When you think something bad might happen and you're just worrying about it over and over again, that creates actually a lot more anxiety than dealing with the bad thing itself. I think markets are very similar. So when they didn't know it was going to happen, now they're like, okay, we know who won, we know what we're dealing with here. And by the way, you know, while I understand that Trump generally has been pretty good for the stock market, he's the most unpredictable force possible. And with both chambers now going to the Democrats, it really does rein him in, in many ways and limits at least the damage they think he could do legislatively. And so I think that they might actually like a little bit of it. [00:20:29] S0: Right. Okay. So prop 40, the the billionaire tax. Look. It's not looking like it's gonna go. What do you think that tells us about the way voters are feeling? Is this a reflection of the lobbying that Silicon Valley did? Is it just a reflection of the structure I of