00:04:36 · Cameron McLain, Jack Zhang, Tommy Stadlen
[00:04:36] S2: Um the import export business was quite successful. [00:04:40] S1: I mean, like all these businesses made money, and and but um, you know, especially the real estate one was was quite successful. But uh I wouldn't really feel happy that I feel like I really wanted to build in something that uh that can scale, um, something I can use my uh sort of expertise in technology and engineering, right? So that um, you know, I was basically finally able to find Airwalllocks, and and that will be, I would say, the later chapter of my entrepreneurial journey. And and you know, I think finding something like airwalls is quite a blessing because I can see myself building for another 10, 20 years on this on this business and and not worry about getting staled because the market is so big and I just keep can keep creating component value, uh, billions of enterprise, if not multi, if tens of billions of enterprise value every year. [00:05:31] S0: Amazing. So let's go back to that first chapter then of arriving in Australia and basically having to kind of fund yourself through through your studies and working in pretty tough jobs. More right, I think you worked in a in a lemon factory at one point.
00:05:31 · Tommy Stadlen, Jack Zhang
[00:05:31] S0: Amazing. So let's go back to that first chapter then of arriving in Australia and basically having to kind of fund yourself through through your studies and working in pretty tough jobs. More right, I think you worked in a in a lemon factory at one point. [00:05:45] S1: Yeah, that was a holiday job worth here for about four months. What were you doing in the lemon factory? Um, so you know, there's um different sizes of lemon. You know, so there's uh it's a lemon factory, you have all sorts of uh machines and to try to figure out the size of the lemon, and they try to group the similar size into one uh one train and then uh to they wash the lemon, wax it, and then get ended the the the chain and um uh some girls that put a label on it, put in a box. I'm the one that taking care of all size of lemon from you know, put in a box and put in the sort of three-meter by three-meter pillar and then just sort of doing that for 12 hours a day. [00:06:30] S0: Wow. [00:06:30] S1: Uh so the only two guys in the lemon factories, me and the son of the boss. And the son of the boss not doing anything is really just me. [00:06:37] S0: So when you have people now in in London or wherever your office is around the world, tech workers kind of complaining about burnout, do you just laugh? And think this is like you don't know the meaning of the hard words.
00:06:37 · Tommy Stadlen, Jack Zhang, Cameron McLain
[00:06:37] S0: So when you have people now in in London or wherever your office is around the world, tech workers kind of complaining about burnout, do you just laugh? And think this is like you don't know the meaning of the hard words. [00:06:47] S1: I just um, you know, I think I think like, you know, mental issues are real, and then people have strengths and weaknesses, but when you're on surviving mode, you are so focused on surviving, you don't really have mental issues. Because you you you you just have one single mission is to leave. And and when you have that simple mindset, you have no anxiety. Right. Anxiety is more for complicated lifestyles, right? You know, when you have so many desires in life, you have so many uh luxury, then then you start having anxiety. It's really, really funny. Yeah. Uh so the more um sort of uh almost like the more wealth you have, the more likely you're gonna have anxiety. [00:07:31] S2: And as as your life has changed and your situations have changed, have you found anxiety creeping in? [00:07:37] S1: Oh, yeah, 100% of my anxiety level went through the roof now. Um, you know, compared to um, you know, 20 years ago I was working way harder. [00:07:45] S2: Yeah. [00:07:46] S1: Um, but what's very simple. Yeah, because you had focused. There was no. You don't really have room to think about anything else. Just don't even think about it, right? Because it's not possible. Sure.
00:07:46 · Jack Zhang, Tommy Stadlen
[00:07:46] S1: Um, but what's very simple. Yeah, because you had focused. There was no. You don't really have room to think about anything else. Just don't even think about it, right? Because it's not possible. Sure. [00:07:54] S0: I think that second phase is really interesting for you, Jack. Of like, you know, you you you made it through that first phase really, really tough. And then you're starting to build these businesses. And and as Cam alluded to, some of them, from what we understand, were pretty successful, right? Like making millions of dollars a year, importing and exporting olive oil and things like that. Um, I think it's interesting that like you get brilliant entrepreneurs around the world who are very good at what they do and might get an olive oil business to like five million of revenue a year or something, but just never during that aiming phase to say, I'm gonna stop and I'm gonna build something which, if I put all my hard work into it or my skill into it, it can be a $10 billion, $50 billion company like Airwallet's rather than kind of limiting themselves. It's interesting that you kind of went through a bunch of these small.
00:08:34 · Jack Zhang
[00:08:34] S1: Well, I didn't know how big Airwalls is gonna be, by the way. I was, you know, I remember I thought I was gonna be pretty happy if it's a hundred million dollar business, you know? Okay. Yeah. So I think I think my key thing is is not really the pursuit of evaluation, it's really pursuit of happiness. And I wanted to find something I truly happy about. And, you know, like I was doing real estate and I almost doing nothing, and I was making multiple million a year, and I'm not really using any of my intelligence and I'm not solving any hard problems. And I mean, what I okay, I could build a few buildings here and there. I mean, it's not to discriminate people doing real estate. I'm just like, no, just not for me. And I don't feel I made a real impact to the world. I was doing trading. I saw uh, you know, uh 20, 30 minute PLs and on a daily basis, but like, you know, I don't feel anything. I'm not really impacting people's life, I'm not making anything better in this world. Yeah, um I just feel I'm irrelevant. I'm I'm just like, I live, I eat, I, you know, I travel around maybe have a family, but then what do I leave to this world? Nothing. Right. So is it is it a drive for relevance? I wouldn't say it's relevance. I think it's more like just I wanted to make uh my own stamp in the world that I wanted to say, hey, you know, the day I died, I said I have achieved so many things, I made you know people's lives better. Um, I've impacted X many millions of lives, right? So I think that is something um I always feel that um something I'm I'm fascinated about.
00:10:06 · Cameron McLain, Jack Zhang
[00:10:06] S2: That's a nice segue into the stripe story where you uh famously rejected a offer from the Collinson brothers to buy your company for 1.2 billion. I think at that moment you had two million in revenue or something. [00:10:18] S1: Like something something for the past 12 months I had two million, right? [00:10:20] S2: Okay, but that was two million in revenue. Well, there's forward it's a bit better. Um, you know, you would have you know made an awful lot of money in that process, but I guess did you go through a similar kind of uh framework at that moment? Like that wasn't a happiness maximizing decision, you wanted to continue working on hard problems. Yeah, walk us through that. That's a that's a pretty big moment.