00:03:59 · Adam Miller, Ben Pfisterer, Sachin
[00:03:59] S2: Are they are they surprised about kind of what you're doing now and the amount of success you've had? [00:04:05] S0: I think most parents don't really... I I probably do get what I do now. I've been working for Square, I think, was there for six years, and it probably took four years to realize what that was. So I think now that they're kind of getting a little bit more... Yeah. My my parents like to keep all of me and my siblings humble, so there's no there's no gratitude or... No. Sorry. Not not wrong word. There's no, you know, applauded or anything like that. It's just, you know, we're just part of the family, so it's all good. [00:04:31] S1: When I look at those two traits, so being competitive, I can see how that's very needed for competing in such a fiercely competitive industry where you've got all these regulators. You've obviously got the big banks, and that love of design, I see, has been really important because you're you're in hardware, so... And you wanna create beautiful things [00:04:46] S0: Yep. [00:04:46] S1: For end consumers. How would you say competitiveness and that love of design is really manifested in this sort of Story Zeller?
00:04:46 · Sachin, Ben Pfisterer
[00:04:46] S1: For end consumers. How would you say competitiveness and that love of design is really manifested in this sort of Story Zeller? [00:04:53] S0: Yeah. I think the competitive side is that you're not scared of competition. I think that's probably a trait you have to have to be a... To be an entrepreneur and particularly a tech startup because incumbents are very ominous things, and they're... Particularly in the financial services space, if you were scared of competition or taking it on, you just wouldn't do it. Just way too hard. So, having that sort of... You know, and the ability to just look past that and the belief that you can build something to really change and, you know, sort of disrupt... I don't know they were, but disrupting comments is really critical. And design for me, it's critical. And we build software, hardware, like the onboarding flow, every part of the dashboard, all the apps we build. I'm very, very strong in that. We're a product led business. We love design. We have a strong design team. So we think particularly in our space, which can be really commoditized and boring, bringing an element of beauty and design element to it as well is something that isn't there. So, yeah, it's a sort of a passion of mine and the design team as well. So we enjoy injecting that into everything we do.
00:04:53 · Ben Pfisterer, Adam Miller
[00:04:53] S0: Yeah. I think the competitive side is that you're not scared of competition. I think that's probably a trait you have to have to be a... To be an entrepreneur and particularly a tech startup because incumbents are very ominous things, and they're... Particularly in the financial services space, if you were scared of competition or taking it on, you just wouldn't do it. Just way too hard. So, having that sort of... You know, and the ability to just look past that and the belief that you can build something to really change and, you know, sort of disrupt... I don't know they were, but disrupting comments is really critical. And design for me, it's critical. And we build software, hardware, like the onboarding flow, every part of the dashboard, all the apps we build. I'm very, very strong in that. We're a product led business. We love design. We have a strong design team. So we think particularly in our space, which can be really commoditized and boring, bringing an element of beauty and design element to it as well is something that isn't there. So, yeah, it's a sort of a passion of mine and the design team as well. So we enjoy injecting that into everything we do. [00:05:52] S2: And you're known kind of for your really direct approach to running a company. I think we read in the AFR that, you know, you're just known for this intensity in the way you act. Has that come from learnings from Square or anywhere else you've worked, or has that always been kind of part of your genetic makeup?
00:05:52 · Adam Miller, Ben Pfisterer
[00:05:52] S2: And you're known kind of for your really direct approach to running a company. I think we read in the AFR that, you know, you're just known for this intensity in the way you act. Has that come from learnings from Square or anywhere else you've worked, or has that always been kind of part of your genetic makeup? [00:06:11] S0: I've never thought of it. Maybe it's part of the Germanic side of my background. It's just that very direct combined with Australian background. Think those two are very direct cultures in general. I just... I probably dislike it because that's way I like being treated. I don't... I I struggled with the whole San Francisco vibe and what have you where people talk around something that I don't like and they actually compliment me before they insult you and I love it in Australia. It's very direct. And so for me, I just wanna be treated that way. And a direct, hopefully, doesn't translate to rude or arrogant or anything like that. But if you can just be honest the way you're feeling or honest the direction you wanna go, you can just cut to what we need to do as a business. So, yeah, I think that's a trade if everyone can be a little bit more direct, but thoughtful the way they do it. It's definitely lends a lot of the company.
00:06:53 · Sachin
[00:06:53] S1: The question that I really had on the tip of my tongue when I was researching for this episode is that you sort of call yourself direct, and I think a number of people have said you're fairly intense, and then you've built this company, a billion dollar company within two years. But then in your history, you've worked across all these organizations like NAB, Visa, these sort of big financial incumbents. Those two things don't really, for me, fit together. This person that's created a billion dollar company in two years, then you worked at some of the most bureaucratic organizations, I think, in Australia. How do those two things fit together?
00:07:22 · Ben Pfisterer
[00:07:22] S0: No. It's true. I'm a slow learner in that front. I just... The one thing that I had from being that... I guess, from the competitive side of it when you left university, it was kinda like, you know, go get big brands, chase money early on, and I realized pretty quickly that the money part of it was unfulfilling, but I was a bit of a slow learner on the brand thing. So when I sort of joined companies, I eventually had to join them both for the wrong reasons and then realized I need to do something hard at those companies. So for that first eye opening, I did management consulting for probably too long and then joined Jetstar, and I was kinda, like, bit younger then in terms of more watching these people grow grow the company. But I learned a lot, and I thought, hang on. This is kind of the environment I like where they're really pushing. They're up against incumbents, etcetera. So that was the first taste of it. And then, yeah, just slow learner going back to these big brands. But when I was within those companies, I always found a way to find something that was ridiculously hard to do. Otherwise, I would have gone insane. And I'd... And I and I I generally did not like working at these companies, which is, in hindsight, ridiculous. But I like it. Going to NAB, I realized that there was this thing potentially called, you know, chip card technology and then contactless and then mobile payments. The bank should be doing and wasn't doing, so I pushed them really hard. So that pushing internally to get something hard done, sort of, I guess, ticked the box enough to hang around for a little bit. But, yeah, I I learned a lot about pushing through people's resistance and, you know, how to influence people internally to get stuff done, finding advocates, you know, being determined, fighting resistance, all that sort of stuff. So I learned a lot from that, but, yeah, ultimately, it just wasn't for me and finally saw the light. But in Australia, there weren't these consumer facing tech companies you could jump into like today. Just wasn't that when I was, you know, back at that age. So I didn't have too many options on that front, but, obviously, eventually, when the Square opportunity came along, I jumped at that. But in the meantime, I decided two companies to try to scratch that itch and see how it went. And