Sixteen:Nine - All Digital Signage, Some Snark
00:14:01 · Ted Romanowitz, Dave Haynes
[00:14:01] S1: That's true, but really it comes down to a cost basis. And this is where we've modeled working with some of the biggest OEMs and ODMs in the world, we've modeled the volume that they're going to be able to produce over the next several years and the quality that they'll be able to deliver in mass quantities. And basically the outcome is that by the early 2030s, let's say a 77 inches or 80 inches micro LED display chip on glass will be $4,000 or less. And so that brings it into mass adoption and really makes it useful for not only does it enable the close-up viewing that chip on glass does or chip on board, but it enables a price point where you're going to see it broadly deployed in meeting rooms and corporate. You'll see it in classrooms and education, all across stadiums, venues, hospitality. Every different market vertical is going to be impacted by a price point of LED that's comparable to LCD today within the next several years. [00:15:26] S0: And why wouldn't that happen just with COB? [00:15:30] S1: It's the cost basis of, being able to do things on a PCB is more expensive versus a TFT backplane. Gotcha. Over the long run, it has to shift Towards a TFT back when the glass backplane and [00:15:49] S0: the barrier to to to that happening right now is unlike COB where mass transfer. Appears to have been worked out, it's still a work in progress on the chip on glass or micro LED side, right?
00:15:49 · Dave Haynes, Ted Romanowitz
[00:15:49] S0: the barrier to to to that happening right now is unlike COB where mass transfer. Appears to have been worked out, it's still a work in progress on the chip on glass or micro LED side, right? [00:16:09] S1: It is. There's a few other kind of roadblocks that have to overcome for chip on glass to be in volume with high quality, high yields. And when that happens, then you'll start seeing the volumes ramp and the price really start to drop. [00:16:31] S0: So there will be a day early in the next decade when chip on glass micro LED displays same dimensions, same resolution, everything else would be a price parity with LCD. [00:16:49] S1: Yes. With LCD today. [00:16:51] S0: With LCD today. [00:16:53] S1: Yeah. And then, you know, this is what Mozz has been looking at and the rest of the team is what's going to happen with flat panel LCD, interactive LCD and projection. What are the unique instances of where those need to be implemented, best fit kind of applications, and what they're doing to drive price down and add value differentiate to keep extending those product life cycles?
00:16:53 · Ted Romanowitz, S3, Dave Haynes
[00:16:53] S1: Yeah. And then, you know, this is what Mozz has been looking at and the rest of the team is what's going to happen with flat panel LCD, interactive LCD and projection. What are the unique instances of where those need to be implemented, best fit kind of applications, and what they're doing to drive price down and add value differentiate to keep extending those product life cycles? [00:17:25] S3: For over a decade, Screenfeed has been the reliable choice for beautifully designed licensed content such as news and weather. We handle over 27,000,000 requests a day to deliver dynamic content to 200,000 screens across the globe. Now we bring you Screenfeed Connect, a no code solution that makes complex content projects easy. Projects that used to take our designers and developers weeks became a to do we could complete before lunch. The easy to use browser based tool leverages pre built data connections and ready made widgets to give you the power to design with data. Create team member profiles, schedules, tenant directories, progress boards, featured products, or anything that leverages your data. Discover how Connect empowers you to complete projects faster at screenfeed.com. [00:18:12] S0: Mozz, is there much runway still for, LCD? And I'm I'm also very curious about OLED, which keeps getting better technically, but is still pretty narrowly defined, particularly on the pro AV side.
00:18:29 · Morris Garrard
[00:18:29] S2: Yeah, so I think there's a few nuances here that we need to consider when we're talking about the LCD product life cycle, I guess. How we looked at this in our recent strategic market outlook was to split the market into three parts. So first, looking at the video wall market, then looking at the digital signage market, and then looking at what we define as the presentation market, so front of classroom, front of boardroom devices. So video wall, I think it's no real surprise that that is certainly being cannibalized by LED the fastest. We're already seeing that kind of impact happening. I think back in 2020 even, LED overtook LCD as the main contributor to market value in the video wall market. If we then look at digital signage, which obviously would include screens that are sub 100 inches, which, typically would have the kind of, I guess, price per resolution advantage over LED. We're already seeing LED making inroads to that market as well. So it's actually this year, 2025, that we're expecting LED to overtake LCD as the main contributor to market value. Then looking at the presentation market, which is very much dominated by the likes of interactive flat panel display, but then also obviously non touch in many boardrooms as well. Obviously, there is still that cost consciousness when it comes to presentation displays. However, in the more narrow pixel pitch segments, as Ted's mentioned, that price attrition that we're expecting over the next few years is going to rapidly increase adoption of LED within the boardroom, especially the boardroom, perhaps less so in kind of K-twelve, which obviously makes up the bulk of the education segment. But we're expecting by 2028 that LED will overtake LCD's market value share by that point. That's not to say necessarily that the LCD market is going away in volume terms. I think really the key point is in terms of value. So, you know, prices are continuing to erode to really race to the bottom on LCD. And then obviously, yeah, with volume starting to flatten out, LED is making inroads quite rapidly.
00:20:57 · Dave Haynes, Morris Garrard
[00:20:57] S0: What about OLED? [00:20:58] S2: So OLED's an interesting one. I think the key stumbling block for OLED in the professional displays market has been the price as opposed to LCD. We're looking at around about 1.5 to 2x differential, which within the cost conscious mindset, especially in signage, but also in presentation displays as well, It has presented an obstacle to adoption. So OLED, we're looking at around sort of 1% of volumes across the global market in terms of volume. So, yeah, and really that's kind of stayed quite stable over the last few years. So hasn't ramped as perhaps was expected a few years ago. [00:21:49] S0: One thing that was intriguing to me was reading some of the stuff coming out of CES and then going to ISE and I went to the... Was it... It was the TCL booth, I believe. And they had a... Or was it a 120, 125 inches, something like giant, giant TV. And I was thinking, Okay, that I know what they're doing with these things. There's local dimming and everything else. And the the the visuals coming out of these displays are stunning. They look, you know, borderline OLED quality. [00:22:29] S2: Yeah. [00:22:30] S0: And at that form factor, as costs come down on manufacturing those things, they are starting to approach like very close in size to all in one LED displays that a lot of manufacturers have in their product lines to kind of simplify things for for meeting spaces, conference rooms and so on. Do see these LCDs getting some traction, kind of supplanting the all in one LEDs?
00:22:30 · Dave Haynes, Morris Garrard
[00:22:30] S0: And at that form factor, as costs come down on manufacturing those things, they are starting to approach like very close in size to all in one LED displays that a lot of manufacturers have in their product lines to kind of simplify things for for meeting spaces, conference rooms and so on. Do see these LCDs getting some traction, kind of supplanting the all in one LEDs? [00:23:05] S2: Do you know what, Dave? That's a really interesting point because we had a number of conversations at ISE around the opportunity for larger than 100 inches LCDs. I think my answer to those individuals was that there may be an opportunity for now. I think the price attrition that we're seeing on all in one LEDs will bring those displays into, if maybe not into price parity, then at least within the same kind of ballpark. [00:23:34] S0: Okay. [00:23:35] S2: But I think the other key issue with, let's take 120 inches LCD, for example, the logistics of it. If you're in a boardroom and you're on the 5th Floor, let's say, and you've got to fit 120 inches LCD into a lift, then, I mean, where we're based in Europe, I mean, that's absolutely not going to happen. Maybe in North America where you guys have your freight elevators and whatnot, but I think in terms of being able to install the display itself... [00:24:07] S0: You're not carrying [00:24:07] S2: that up [00:24:08] S0: Exactly. The