Latent Space: The AI Engineer Podcast
01:55:02 · S2, Mihail Eric, Shawn Wang
[01:55:02] S2: Yeah. It's weird on the student side. There's like a lot of industry, you think you're being productive, you're not, it's probably the student version, right? You're notion charting and making all these optimizations, personal assets like, I went through the psychosis, but nothing has changed. Right? [01:55:18] S1: Right. Right. [01:55:18] S2: So go through it. Go through it. [01:55:19] S1: Right. Yeah. I haven't seen this. I've seen a version of this from Boris, actually. Obviously, more geared toward cloud use cases, but I remember he made, like, a cloud artifact, which showed, I think more of it at the team level, but I think he had four stages, not eight stages. But it kind of rough... Roughly followed the same progression of, like, no adoption to... Through to, [01:55:37] S0: you know, I guess Yeah. Only four is good. This is a... There's too many levels. Yeah. Well, see... We'll see if Vivo can pull it up. But other than that, you know, zooming out. Have we, you know, discard... Discussed all the things? That's one. Oh, that's one? Okay. Yeah. Here we go. It is an artifact. Okay. So it's gated, assisted, parallel. What's the last one? Supervised autonomy and AI native. Okay. [01:55:57] S1: So it's zero index. So it's five levels. Right? [01:55:59] S0: Alright. Insert zero. Yeah. Wow. Actually, it's pretty good. I need to redo this in more more depth. [01:56:07] S1: Can you say native?
01:56:07 · Mihail Eric, Shawn Wang, S2
[01:56:07] S1: Can you say native? [01:56:08] S0: Yeah. Yeah. I I would give a shout out to dynamic workflows. This is one of those things that is a sub agent pattern Yeah. That the opening guys are also exploring that is clearly fitting. And and so it's basically you're writing a harness on demand for the thing that you're trying to do. Yep. And so this is maybe... Like, a lot of sub agent conversation is just you're copying the the parent agent. Yep. But you actually should be writing way more code and then, like, running that as a as a as a sub agent, and that is what the Anthropic people have chosen to call dynamic workflows. Okay. But... You know? [01:56:45] S1: Yeah. We... We've built a version as well. Yeah. It's it's a good pattern. [01:56:48] S0: For Monaco? Mhmm. [01:56:49] S1: Yeah. [01:56:49] S0: What does it do? [01:56:50] S1: Yeah. I mean, on the fly, it's really, harness sort of use cases for GCAM. [01:56:54] S2: Yeah. Oh, that's great. Yeah. I will note that when Boris wrote this, it's for team adoption for people that are listening. And also he says, Anthropic is on stage three. We're still trying to get to stage four. Wow. He's like, I am at stage four. I'm the guy. But it's not as simple as Steve's. Like, Steve is a very good personal do this, do this, do this. This is a much more... If you're running a team and you wanna AI pill your team and not just be a user of one. Anthropic is still at stage three. Don't don't be like... Yeah. Yeah. Okay.
01:56:54 · S2, Shawn Wang, Mihail Eric
[01:56:54] S2: Yeah. Oh, that's great. Yeah. I will note that when Boris wrote this, it's for team adoption for people that are listening. And also he says, Anthropic is on stage three. We're still trying to get to stage four. Wow. He's like, I am at stage four. I'm the guy. But it's not as simple as Steve's. Like, Steve is a very good personal do this, do this, do this. This is a much more... If you're running a team and you wanna AI pill your team and not just be a user of one. Anthropic is still at stage three. Don't don't be like... Yeah. Yeah. Okay. [01:57:30] S0: I mean, you should teach this. This is this is great. This is... This got all of the stuff that... This is... Everything that we talked about. There you go. I I can't believe I haven't come across this. Yeah. Take research. Yeah. Very, very good. Okay. That was a wild tour. One semester of Stanford in one hour... Two hours. Thank you for doing this. Any parting thoughts? Any call section? [01:57:49] S1: No. This is, thanks for... I mean, ton of fun. It's it's been a a a, you know, nine months in the making. I'm excited. This is, end of week one. Lot A to do. A lot to learn. I'm excited to see what happens with the... Especially the OSS partners and just getting students, like, deepened in the code of of some complex code bases, having them build some stuff. So, no, it'll be fun. Keep you guys posted. [01:58:08] S2: You're doing another version next year? You you need credits for students. If OSS people wanna get involved, they can reach out.
01:58:08 · S2, Shawn Wang, Mihail Eric
[01:58:08] S2: You're doing another version next year? You you need credits for students. If OSS people wanna get involved, they can reach out. [01:58:15] S0: Sure. Very good. Just because credits matter, do they want it? [01:58:18] S1: What? Do do they actually want the The students? [01:58:20] S0: Or they [01:58:20] S2: want... You do have credit card. I don't think a lot of students wanna spend for that. [01:58:24] S0: I I work on the AIU credit card. Yeah. [01:58:26] S1: No. I I I think... Look. I will start, like, I remember, you know, it was, like, you know, there's a certain number of credits for sure. But then on top of he's like, look, if they wanna go hog wild with this, like, let me know, and we'll do have these, like, one off experiments where they can just, like, scale up to a thousand plus agents. So This [01:58:39] S2: is email from Vector. [01:58:40] S1: Yeah. Email from Vector. Yeah. [01:58:41] S0: Yeah. No. Those kind of people are valuable. So this is Wilson from Cursor, right, who is like, I'm gonna write a browser. Right? Yeah. That's right. Those people who are ambitious and like, can actually execute, those are very valuable, and that's basically a recruiting call. [01:58:55] S1: That's right. Yeah.
01:58:55 · Mihail Eric, Shawn Wang, S2
[01:58:55] S1: That's right. Yeah. [01:58:56] S0: That's a good point. Yeah. And then... But I I do think, like, students should should, like, understand how to be ambitious because snapping a photo... I mean, respectfully, snapping a photo and turning it into an app is not that ambitious in in the... This day and age. Writing a browser is. And there... Then, like, there actually is a lot more projects like that. [01:59:12] S1: Yeah. Yeah. Think that's right. Yeah. It's all about raising the floor. I mean, I think, yeah, last year was, it would... You know, you know, credits credit to student of of last year, but, yeah, this year, I... Obviously, we're we're gonna expect... [01:59:23] S0: Gonna... That's a fail now. [01:59:24] S1: We're gonna expect more. I mean... Yeah. But that's but that's that's the whole point. Right? Like, we're leveling up. Right? Last year, it was like, yeah. Hey. Have you heard of prompting? Like, here's what it is. I mean, I spent some time talking about, like, you know, k shot prompting as one of the lessons. And, like, I don't even think you guys even think about that now. So... [01:59:38] S2: I think there's a there's a version of thinking you stick out in your cohort of classes. And then there's also a version of you're also in early engineering roles of a bunch of people in industry, people still trying to get jobs and it's not a... Not to call out one demo, but you can do a lot to stick out.
01:59:38 · S2, Shawn Wang, Mihail Eric
[01:59:38] S2: I think there's a there's a version of thinking you stick out in your cohort of classes. And then there's also a version of you're also in early engineering roles of a bunch of people in industry, people still trying to get jobs and it's not a... Not to call out one demo, but you can do a lot to stick out. [01:59:56] S0: I'll give students a freebie of a week 11, Make benchmarks. Make benchmarks and evals. This will get you a good one. It's gonna get you in the door of every Frontier lab and every front... Every top agent lab. [02:00:09] S2: Good good engineering blog posts with some rigor on anything interesting. There's a lot of benchmarks of low hanging fruit there, the engineering blog posts do really well. Right? You went deep on one thing. [02:00:21] S1: Yeah. And probably also there's like big... A lot of money to be made in that as well. So not just in the doors, but if you make that into businesses, you you can you can really, really cash in on that. [02:00:31] S2: Sell some [02:00:32] S0: more SWE-bench was, like, undergrad project. [02:00:35] S1: Yes. Yes. Yes. That's right. From from Princeton. Right? Yes. Yes. [02:00:41] S0: Great. Okay. Well, that's Thank you so much. [02:00:43] S1: Yeah. Thank you, guys.