Dream Machines: Physical AI, Robotics, Being Human
00:31:01 · Evan Helda
[00:31:01] S1: I thought this would be an AI technology podcast, but we can, we can, we can, we can bring it back there. So, uh, yeah, I guess the last comment there is, um, the takeaway from inside out is there is no one self. There's little micro cells, lots of parts of us that make up this experiential, uh, experience that we're, that we're all having. So, so I think here's a good segue back into technology. So we talked about tech as a mirror, especially AI as a mirror of, of what we Really are and who we really are. I almost call this podcast a white mirror to try to be like the anti black mirror and tell tell more positive stories. What do you think is the best way to, I guess, create a technology that is a white mirror, not a black mirror? So as you mentioned that we have right now is a mirror. Do you have any thesis yourself as to, cause you talk to all these amazing entrepreneurs and CEOs and builders and you see what they're up to. Have you seen any one approach you think, okay, that's the white mirror approach and the white mirror form of thinking towards building?
00:32:12 · Lara Sophie Bothur
[00:32:12] S0: Well, you know what, it's, I think this is a little dream, you know, that is very beautiful. And I also lived that dream because I, Always show good technology. I don't show the bad side of it, but I think it's always when you take a look into our world, there's no good where there's no bad. So you can't talk about a good side when there's not, not, you know, when you talk about a good side, there is a bad side and you can also use an eye. To get your chocolate croissant done in the morning, you can also kill someone with that. The internet is the same thing. You can research, we can't live without the internet anymore, but then also there is a darkness. There is atom energy, you know, to create energy, but then also to create bombs. There is no good without bad. I mean, also us as human beings, we have a good side and we all do have a bad side and we need to control. And there's this inside out control center. Then again, we need to think. What direction do we want to go into? And I mean, also look at drones. They can deliver your pizza or they can shoot people. Of course, there's good and bad. And I think it's about understanding the technology and understanding that also to make a good decision. But it starts with us because for us, technology is just a tool. It accelerates human Capacities and decisions. Um, and it's, it's not, I mean, maybe at some point there is general intelligence. Um, but I think it should not be the case in any, in any future. I think so for me, general intelligence is that there is an AI that is saying no, when you say I press the stop button and then the AI is saying no. I do press the stop button. And that is like autonomous driving level five, where you can't stop the system anymore. And I think this is nothing reachable. Level four, where you can still decide and decision-making, the last decision should always remain human in my opinion. It doesn't mean because some people say decision-making is deeply human. I think it, I mean, I also, you know, Check what AI thinks about my decision. If you're a doctor, you can't look at millions of tumor pictures that an AI can see. And still, I would never leave the conversation of announcing a cancer to an AI, but the last decision should be human. So I think when it comes to good and bad, it's something deeply human that we need to decide. Because there is good and bad.
00:35:28 · Lara Sophie Bothur, Evan Helda
And the question is also who's responsible for the bigger decisions, right? That is interesting. If you look, for example, at autonomous driving again, If the car needs to make a decision between the kid and the old grandma and the accident happens with the grandma, who is responsible for it? Is that you sitting in the car? Is that the car provider? Is it the one who put in the data? Is that policy? Who is responsible for those decisions? And I think we don't have all the answers yet. I think it's super important to talk about those things as we do right now. [00:36:15] S1: It's almost like we need a renaissance in philosophy. Philosophy was the most important thing back in the ancient Greek and Roman times, right? And I think it's lost its luster amongst the general public in the last, we'll call it 50 to 100 years. But I totally agree with you. I think that is the most simple answer to like, how do we avoid the black mirror scenario? Humans are the final trigger point, final decision maker. But then it comes down to like, okay, then humans have to really decide what's right and wrong and what's good and bad. And that those are all super deeply philosophical questions. And I mean, this
00:36:15 · Evan Helda, Lara Sophie Bothur
[00:36:15] S1: It's almost like we need a renaissance in philosophy. Philosophy was the most important thing back in the ancient Greek and Roman times, right? And I think it's lost its luster amongst the general public in the last, we'll call it 50 to 100 years. But I totally agree with you. I think that is the most simple answer to like, how do we avoid the black mirror scenario? Humans are the final trigger point, final decision maker. But then it comes down to like, okay, then humans have to really decide what's right and wrong and what's good and bad. And that those are all super deeply philosophical questions. And I mean, this [00:36:56] S0: sitting down here, you know, how often I already wanted to look up something. You already looked up something. I want to, you know, search for the definition of But it's like, you know, really sit down, not using tech to discuss it. I think that is also super interesting. So we as humans can already align. And I think this is already the biggest challenge because we are all already not aligned because we're not talking enough about it. And communication is always the key to everything. Because there are so many misconceptions about things because we didn't talk about it. And you can see it in relationships. And then, you know, people say, oh, I thought you meant it this way. And then you're like, no. So we really need to talk about those future technologies to define what we want them to be. I think that is super important.
00:36:56 · Lara Sophie Bothur, Evan Helda
[00:36:56] S0: sitting down here, you know, how often I already wanted to look up something. You already looked up something. I want to, you know, search for the definition of But it's like, you know, really sit down, not using tech to discuss it. I think that is also super interesting. So we as humans can already align. And I think this is already the biggest challenge because we are all already not aligned because we're not talking enough about it. And communication is always the key to everything. Because there are so many misconceptions about things because we didn't talk about it. And you can see it in relationships. And then, you know, people say, oh, I thought you meant it this way. And then you're like, no. So we really need to talk about those future technologies to define what we want them to be. I think that is super important. [00:37:58] S1: It actually made me think of something strange and recursive in that. There's a world in which we all try to figure out the answer to what's right and wrong and philosophize. But this next, this current wave of leaders and thinkers, the source of their thinking there's this making is the AI itself. So I was like, how do we get into a world of like unadulterated, unaffected, purely human thought that might already be gone.
00:37:58 · Evan Helda, Lara Sophie Bothur
[00:37:58] S1: It actually made me think of something strange and recursive in that. There's a world in which we all try to figure out the answer to what's right and wrong and philosophize. But this next, this current wave of leaders and thinkers, the source of their thinking there's this making is the AI itself. So I was like, how do we get into a world of like unadulterated, unaffected, purely human thought that might already be gone. [00:38:33] S0: I mean, I think so. If I, if I check social media, there's like so much AI and then you have AI avatars or influencers and influencers are becoming very powerful. Right. And, um, to have a like purely human thought, I think this will be very rare in the future. Also, because data, there's, we don't even know where our data is. It's super unstructured. You know, we have so many gaps inside our data assets, and then they are already filled up with AI. And nothing at one point. It's just like everything AI. And then we live with AI. They are inside our homes. Would you do that?