00:40:50 · Ryan Deng, JC Lozano
[00:40:50] S0: One shot with. [00:40:51] S1: Wouldn't quite say one shot, but it is, like, it is, like, much more feasible now. So back then, it was like a bunch of like competent... Complicated math. Like, this was like before deep learning actually. Or it was like right around the same time that it was taking off. Uh-huh. So we built a bunch of classic what's called structure promotion, which is how you reconstruct the three d geometry of the room, and then we did a bunch of machine learning on top of it in order to, like, extract walls and furniture and be able to paint stuff and all that kind of good stuff. They're still doing well. We were a consumer app, and so we had to pivot. [00:41:21] S0: Okay. Your favorite. Consumer apps. Yes. Yeah. Before we dive into that, like, what is your perspective on on the startup scene as a whole? Because, you know, you're you're building in, physical industries. Right? Yeah. That is a industry in in a niche that I'd say, like, is not, you know, properly commoditized yet. You know, if you're a It's like the ultimate commodity. Commodity by resource, not commodity by startup. You know what I mean? Right? If I were to say, hey, let me start a mining company.
00:41:21 · Ryan Deng, JC Lozano
[00:41:21] S0: Okay. Your favorite. Consumer apps. Yes. Yeah. Before we dive into that, like, what is your perspective on on the startup scene as a whole? Because, you know, you're you're building in, physical industries. Right? Yeah. That is a industry in in a niche that I'd say, like, is not, you know, properly commoditized yet. You know, if you're a It's like the ultimate commodity. Commodity by resource, not commodity by startup. You know what I mean? Right? If I were to say, hey, let me start a mining company. [00:41:48] S1: Yeah. I'm Cook's. Why? You can just go do the thing. Like, you can actually like I don't even what to start, to be honest. That's my biggest message that, like, I think that... I've talked to a bunch of folks about this. Sure. And I was like, how did you go do this? I think at the end of the day, like, the the most fun, and I think the thing you realize as you get a little bit older is like you can just go do the thing. And like the usually people will like, generally speaking, if you're like earnest and hardworking and intelligent and like go after it, like people will pay you to try and solve hard problems. Sure. Like that's like a lot of it. And mostly they'll be like, you really wanna go do that? That's kinda that's kinda crazy. But you can just go do it. Like you can just like go and buy a mine, like it's not... Maybe you have to have the capital to do it, but like...
00:41:48 · JC Lozano, Ryan Deng
[00:41:48] S1: Yeah. I'm Cook's. Why? You can just go do the thing. Like, you can actually like I don't even what to start, to be honest. That's my biggest message that, like, I think that... I've talked to a bunch of folks about this. Sure. And I was like, how did you go do this? I think at the end of the day, like, the the most fun, and I think the thing you realize as you get a little bit older is like you can just go do the thing. And like the usually people will like, generally speaking, if you're like earnest and hardworking and intelligent and like go after it, like people will pay you to try and solve hard problems. Sure. Like that's like a lot of it. And mostly they'll be like, you really wanna go do that? That's kinda that's kinda crazy. But you can just go do it. Like you can just like go and buy a mine, like it's not... Maybe you have to have the capital to do it, but like... [00:42:26] S0: When's the... What's been the hardest part of of your journey of of founding, you know, this company that you're on right now? The hardest part? Yeah. Like, what's, like, the the experience or the journey you've been on that made you realize, yeah, this ain't easy? [00:42:39] S1: This is my third one. [00:42:40] S0: Yeah. So so we did the three
00:42:40 · Ryan Deng, JC Lozano
[00:42:40] S0: Yeah. So so we did the three [00:42:42] S1: d mapping company, and then I was a founding engineer at a AI developer tools company called Kite. Uh-huh. We're doing AI developer tools back in, like, 2015, 2016. So we got to build probabilistic graphical models all the way up to, like, transformers that we trained ourselves. Mhmm. And then we were acquired, which is great, spent some time in big tech, a firm doing machine learning, underwriting, and ads, and a bunch of other stuff. So not unfamiliar with this. I think the biggest thing that is really, really difficult as you scale Mhmm. Keeping everybody going in the same direction, keeping the bar for culture really, really high, that's something I spend a lot of time on, is like I spend so much time. So myself or Turner, you know, chat with every single candidate that we hire still. Yeah. We have 300 people. [00:43:38] S0: Do you do the Brian Chesky method where you're like, hey, you have like five years left to live, you need to work now. Company? Jeez. I know a couple founders that do that. You could just talk I was doing that too, you know. Not not great, but [00:43:51] S1: No. Like, I just like... One of the two of us talks to every single candidate. [00:43:54] S0: How do you even feel for the candidate, you know? How do you know, like, this person is the one? Right? [00:43:59] S1: Well, like I think the most important part of like doing any of this stuff, right, is like the people that you get to work with. [00:44:05] S0: Mhmm.
00:44:05 · Ryan Deng, JC Lozano
[00:44:05] S0: Mhmm. [00:44:05] S1: And so it's actually like the... It's pretty easy to figure out like, oh, this person's like... This person is earnest, they're genuine Mhmm. They're hardworking, they care about things, they like take pride in their work. Like, that's like... If you clear that bar, like, you know, there's other stuff that comes after that. There's technical skills and like all these specifics. But if you like clear that bar of they're like genuine, they're hardworking, they're earnest, they're... You know, they care about their craft, they take pride in their work, like, if you can clear that bar and they're, a nice person, we have a different way of saying it, but, like, they're, like, not an asshole, then, like, it's, like, you're gonna... You're... Like, the chances are you're gonna do well. Right? There's a bunch of, like, other pieces that we care about, like, you know, everybody gets home safely and and we have, a a culture of ultimate ownership and and, like, simplifying and automating things and and sort of, like, collaboration and sharing your Legos, like all those things are super important. But like the base level is is like, is somebody genuine? Are they earnest? Do they care about the work? Do they care about like, do they have intellectual humility and curiosity? Like, if you start there, which is pretty easy to read, right? Like, you're intellectually curious, like, I could tell that after talking to you for a few minutes. Yeah. Like, once you have that, like, you know,
00:45:12 · Ryan Deng, JC Lozano
[00:45:12] S0: it's it's... Would you would you say you consider aptitude first or skills first? Because I know this is kind of a debate between... [00:45:17] S1: Aptitude versus skills. Yeah. So my typical bet is I will take somebody who has fewer skills but like more potential Mhmm. And is like willing to put in the [00:45:32] S0: work Mhmm. [00:45:33] S1: To be successful. Mhmm. I think, again, maybe this is just because I'm from the Midwest. My parents taught me to to work... Like, the value of hard work. Mhmm. But like, for me, it's like, if you're hardworking Mhmm. And you're earnest and you're genuine and you take pride in your work, I think you can do most things. [00:45:51] S0: Right. [00:45:52] S1: And so for me, it's like that mentality is the most important part. Like, these people here to like do something ambitious? Do they care about what they're doing? Do they work really hard at it? Mhmm. Like if you do those things, like I'm I'm super excited about that. And then, like, skills, like, skills, like, if you work hard and you're earnest and you take pride in your work, like, you can pick up a lot of stuff. Right. So I I I index less on that. [00:46:16] S0: I do have a question for Yeah. You're one of the first founders I've talked to whose company is valued over $1,000,000,000. Okay. We gotta get you some more founders, [00:46:24] S1: man.