A Product Market Fit Show | Startup Podcast for Founders
00:44:17 · Pablo Srugo, Steve Tuck
[00:44:17] S1: Let me ask two kind of tactical questions on this, practical questions I should say. The first one is when you talked about the sort of people that take that support example and you hire someone really high up because you can at that salary level, how do you get them to still do the minutia? Maybe that's changed with AI, but part of the whole thing was certainly before AI, like there's all these little things that are so easy to do. I don't want to do them and I shouldn't have to do them. So put this person who makes like way less than me and get them to do that stuff. How did you kind of manage that when you're hiring so high because your salary kind of allows you to? [00:44:49] S0: Yeah, I think, you know, man, such important stuff happens in the minutia. So like it turns out if you, through your hiring process, make sure that you're finding folks that love the grit, that love the detail, oftentimes that like quote unquote menial work is the difference between a high quality customer experience and a low quality customer experience. Because by the way, like someone has to do that dirty work and if you don't do it, you put the burden on the customer. And so I think, you know, we've got folks that lurch at the opportunity to get into the weeds, to get into the data, to get into the detail and yes, are also like, hey, let's figure out how we can automate something that should be just sort of an automatable, repeatable kind of a thing.
00:44:49 · Steve Tuck, Pablo Srugo
[00:44:49] S0: Yeah, I think, you know, man, such important stuff happens in the minutia. So like it turns out if you, through your hiring process, make sure that you're finding folks that love the grit, that love the detail, oftentimes that like quote unquote menial work is the difference between a high quality customer experience and a low quality customer experience. Because by the way, like someone has to do that dirty work and if you don't do it, you put the burden on the customer. And so I think, you know, we've got folks that lurch at the opportunity to get into the weeds, to get into the data, to get into the detail and yes, are also like, hey, let's figure out how we can automate something that should be just sort of an automatable, repeatable kind of a thing. [00:45:34] S1: I think that's the other thing that you got kind of for free through this, which is the 10x type people are more than happy to automate what they should automate to kind of lift them up and especially if they're not going to lose their job, like they're not worried about, oh, AI is going to replace me so I've got to shield it, so I've got to, it's just like, I'm going to be here, I'm going to make what I'm going to make because we all make the same thing. So I might as well just 10x myself and 100x myself and you're hiring those sort of people. It's kind of this, this extra, you know, tailwind that you get, it feels like at least from the system.
00:45:34 · Pablo Srugo, Steve Tuck
[00:45:34] S1: I think that's the other thing that you got kind of for free through this, which is the 10x type people are more than happy to automate what they should automate to kind of lift them up and especially if they're not going to lose their job, like they're not worried about, oh, AI is going to replace me so I've got to shield it, so I've got to, it's just like, I'm going to be here, I'm going to make what I'm going to make because we all make the same thing. So I might as well just 10x myself and 100x myself and you're hiring those sort of people. It's kind of this, this extra, you know, tailwind that you get, it feels like at least from the system. [00:46:01] S0: Yeah, and by the way, it's not like we're not only hiring people 25 years into their career that are like, you know, at the top end of their field. We have tons of folks that are these like deeply curious and highly driven kind of emerging folks in their particular domain or discipline that they come in and, you know, they want to earn their stripes because they are at the same level as everybody else [00:46:24] S1: and I like that because it's like, here's, if you're working here, here's the bar. Like, you got to meet it. It's simple. [00:46:29] S0: And team members hold each other accountable. Like, that's the flip side of this is like, they demand that folks are, you know, as hardworking as they are and, but it really, it is hard to describe the value of everyone on the same team.
00:46:29 · Steve Tuck, Pablo Srugo
[00:46:29] S0: And team members hold each other accountable. Like, that's the flip side of this is like, they demand that folks are, you know, as hardworking as they are and, but it really, it is hard to describe the value of everyone on the same team. [00:46:43] S1: Because you do get that in other companies and it's like, well, this person doesn't perform that well. Yeah, but they only make like 50K, so like whatever, right? It just, so that no longer kind of bleeds in. The second question by the way I wanted to ask just before we move on is, what about at the high end? Like, the person who has to do, you know, half their salary or maybe they can make three times as much somewhere else. And you're kind of like, well, you're great. I want you to work here. We have the perfect role for you. But like this, you know, I'm kind of capped like this because I have a salary cap. This is all I can pay. How do you still get them? I get that there's the story and all these other things, but at some point if they're like, I'm going to make it up. I make a million here, 250K here, you know.
00:47:18 · Steve Tuck
[00:47:18] S0: No, you're right. You're right. Look, mortgages are at seven and three quarters. Like, oil is through the roof. There's, back to where we started, we wanted to make sure that everyone had a really comfortable financial situation. And so, a couple ways we approached that. One is, as the company became more successful, we've raised that level from 175K to 200 to 225 to 250 to 275. We will be at 300. Second of all, we invest a lot into benefits. So, you know, whether it's an individual or a family, we cover everything. And yes, that doesn't show up, you know, in the bank account, but it is a way of investing into employees, whether it's retirement and health and others that it's so rewarding to hear from spouses or others, like, oh my God, this is like night and day from what we've been before. And then the third piece is, as we've been able to grow the value of the company, having ownership in the company has become really valuable. And it didn't occur to me until one of our engineers who's got a bunch of friends over at Meadow was like, hey, by the way, you know, as folks are going into the market, it turns out from a salary plus benefits plus equity perspective, like, we are 100% competitive with, like, OpenAI, Anthropic, you know, all, some of the leading companies out there with some of the biggest offers. And so, I feel like we can stand there kind of chest out with, like, from a compensation perspective, we're competitive.
00:48:51 · Pablo Srugo
[00:48:51] S1: And that part, to be clear, the equity piece, you do kind of drive more or less. It's not like everybody has the exact same equity.