01:03:52 · Adam Miller, Sachin, Daniel Palmer, Michelle Gilmore
[01:03:52] S5: But I [01:03:53] S2: think a more broad question that I want to like ground us in is that who should be making these decisions? Because, Dan, you made the point that our government should be stepping in. I think that's just not going to happen anymore. Now that there's a geopolitical race on, like the deep seek moment to it that everyone calls it. It's kind of like, it feels like the West has to get there first for, you know, Western world order to prevail. Guess that's like the argument that people will make. How do we feel about especially Michelle, with your comments around SF, there's hyper rational people that aren't really thinking about the ethical consequences that are moving as fast as possible. And the reality, all this is being built in one city, because Google's there, all the labs are is fair [01:04:36] S3: to black. [01:04:37] S5: Yeah, exactly. [01:04:39] S1: You know, when when I've sat with people, billionaires in SF behind closed doors, who have told me that they do not care at all about the ethical consequences. And that was September last year. Wow. And I think that is terrifying as someone that deeply cares about the impact that I leave on this world and the impact of my decisions. And I try to think deeply about the cause and effect and consequence. And I make mistakes all the time, but I am trying, as opposed to saying, I don't care. I'm very rich. I'm going to get out of this before anyone does. [01:05:31] S2: Yep.
01:05:32 · Michelle Gilmore
[01:05:32] S1: And is this someone that, you know, is out there making all these investments? So I think that, my honest response is it's terrifying. A lot of it is being driven by people who don't necessarily care about the outcome because they are insulated. Mhmm. And then there's the whole bunch of minions that just work for those people. Mhmm. And so that is another reason why I think that we have a responsibility to explore other ways of doing this, of building value, of building wealth, of dispersing wealth. Yeah. You know, we can sit there as as round here as privileged people who are going to have jobs, but what about the people who can't buy milk next week? Like, no one in this room is in that situation. So I think that that the government will have to be part of it. Various, welfare policies and mechanisms are going to have to scale. I think Australia will probably be some... A place where if you're one of those people, it's gonna be a better experience than somewhere like America. But there are going to be huge cohorts of people that are going to feel this very, very deeply. You know, there's people that won't be able to buy food. There's people that are climate refugees now. We're talking about kind of AI refugees being created. Right? So, you know, I don't think we should downplay it, and I don't think we should say that it's not happening. But I think it's also happening alongside a whole bunch of other crisis that we need to be really honest about. And this didn't just happen yesterday. This has been building for a long time. And this blatant disregard for, consequence is a capitalist notion.
01:07:27 · Sachin, Michelle Gilmore, Adam Miller
[01:07:27] S2: And I think something interesting there that I don't think anyone's really talking about is also, if you're not an AI company, it's so hard to raise. So there's so many deep tech companies, there's so many companies that are like climate tech companies that are doing important things for the world that aren't raising net cash. [01:07:41] S1: On the investors. Yep. Right? Yeah. Like, shame on the investors, just like the statistics around female founders and the percentages there. Like, shame on the investors. That that is about where their decision making is skewed and what they're seeing as investable. And the traits have always been the same. Like, it's so homogenized actually, that just the same traits get invested in over and over and over again, which is why, again, I think think that humanity can only benefit from us going elsewhere. [01:08:20] S5: Mhmm. I also think
01:08:20 · Adam Miller, Sachin
[01:08:20] S5: Mhmm. I also think [01:08:21] S2: that another thing we had kind of to talk about here, is probably a good segue, is that there's been a change in the archetype of SF founders. SF used to be this place of like, I think more intellectual freedom, more weird people that are like countercultural or like had different opinions. Now it feels like there's a lot of nineteen to twenty three year olds going to YC, building the hype company, getting lots of Twitter viral distribution. There's companies like Icon and Cluey. Cluey's cheating on exams, that's how it started. And that's become an archetype. It feels like going into tech and raising VC is like what going to McKinsey used to be like. It feels like the memetic thing that everyone's doing. What do we think about this archetype of founders? I think you can say that a few of them are kind of like Rifters. Maybe Daniel, you have a good view of this with people in your category. Yeah, look,
01:09:17 · Daniel Palmer, Sachin
[01:09:17] S3: I think it's why culture and, yeah, particularly in the tech world is actually really important to think about. Think to go back, and I don't want to come off like Australian elitism or anything, but I think one thing I appreciate about Australian culture that often gets degraded is, I want to throw out the term Tall Poppy Syndrome, I'm not going to say I'm a fan of Tall Poppy Syndrome, but I think a root of that culture is actually kind of important, which is to be sceptical and to evaluate things that are hyped, hyped like over hyped, people who are building things based on purely hype, and evaluate, are they creating real value, Are they considering their actions? Are they creating something that's better for the world? And I think one thing I appreciate about the tech community and folks at the table here today in Sydney as I've experienced it is that a lot more of that conversation happens. And I think it's dangerous if SF becomes a place where it's about almost playing a game. It's like, okay, can I get that Twitter distribution you mentioned? Can I get that viral post? Can I give my company the most buzzy, like we saw with Artisan, replacing humans and that more? It's become essentially a game, and I think that's the culture that's being created there. I think that's what people are investing behind as well. [01:10:44] S2: Which is to your point, Michelle.
01:10:44 · Sachin, Daniel Palmer, Michelle Gilmore, Xharmagne Carandang
[01:10:44] S2: Which is to your point, Michelle. [01:10:46] S3: And so I think that's something that's worthy of criticism and scepticism, and I think you put it better, is on the folks who are actively there creating that culture and endorsing that culture. [01:10:58] S1: Yeah, there will be a reckoning, whether they like to admit it or not, where this will be on their hands, and, you know, they'll be in their bunkers and, New Zealand, you know, which is what was said to me when I talked about this anyway. But I think also we need to acknowledge that we're talking about a really small group of people. So when we say everyone is, everyone is, we're actually not talking about many people. Mhmm. And it can feel like this is everyone, but most people are not doing this. Most people are not raising. Most people are not running companies. Most com... People are not running tech companies. So I think it's also worth just remembering that and hanging out with people that aren't doing that and making sure that we don't create an eco chamber, which VC absolutely is. [01:11:57] S0: I wonder though if... Oh, you go ahead. [01:12:00] S1: And and so I just think that difference is more important than ever. You know, seeking out people that have completely different opinions, think... Seeking out people that have no idea what AI is. Great. Like, I wanna talk to that person. Yeah. As opposed to, like, staying in our little [01:12:17] S0: Little bubble. [01:12:18] S1: Bunkers of comfort that make us think that we are doing diverse thought when actually we're all just saying I