01:13:30 · Xharmagne Carandang, Michelle Gilmore, Sachin
[01:13:30] S0: You guys know that you should step out of this every [01:13:33] S1: now and then because you are kind of creating this insane, eco chamber that is just mirroring what you think is everything and it's not. Yeah. Right? Like, go and buy milk. Go and talk to normal people. Go to your kid's school. Yeah. Like, just do some normal things. Like, get back to humanity. Yeah. [01:13:54] S0: I wonder though if this whole... This hype... Building on the hype thing. Yes. It's on the investors. But is there a reason why they have to do that aside from the investors? Because I was wondering, especially with AI, you can create so much more stuff. There's so much noise out there. Is that why they have to be extra loud, if that makes sense? So for example, Lorikeet you mean? The companies [01:14:16] S1: have to hype. [01:14:17] S0: Why they have to hype. Is it to be heard? Because there's so much noise. Because for example, especially us, Little Lorikeet, far away in Australia, and our competitors are in Silicon Valley, so much money. We had to be a bit more loud to even get in there. So if we think about the whole product versus hype, we can build such a good product, but if we're not... If people think about this, we don't even get a chance to get in the bake off with our competitors, they won't ever know. [01:14:45] S2: Attention is everything, and I also think that there's also more pressure, like, when I was in VC, 1 mil ARR in twelve months used to be the gold standard. Now, at 100x that is the gold standard, right?
01:14:45 · Sachin, Adam Miller, Michelle Gilmore, Georgie Healy
[01:14:45] S2: Attention is everything, and I also think that there's also more pressure, like, when I was in VC, 1 mil ARR in twelve months used to be the gold standard. Now, at 100x that is the gold standard, right? [01:14:58] S5: I mean, from investors again. Investors are creating these expectations, putting so much money into companies, forcing them to go into maybe verticals they don't even know. [01:15:05] S1: Although, Sequoia just said that it now doesn't matter how long it takes to make a million. Mhmm. And that actually the the distinction's going to be from when you make your first 10. Yeah. So it it... Actually, no. We are... In the last six months, that first meal has dropped away because a few of the the ones that actually create the signals for everyone else have come out and quite loudly said that. Mhmm. So I... I'm I'm not sure that... Particularly if you have a good relationship with your VC as well, that inside the conversations are that ridiculous. [01:15:42] S4: Why do you think these startups are lying about their metrics then? Like Because they'd
01:15:42 · Georgie Healy, Michelle Gilmore
[01:15:42] S4: Why do you think these startups are lying about their metrics then? Like Because they'd [01:15:47] S1: like to. Yeah. And and I I think that there is a certain type of founder that does it for reasons which is about perceived success, which is very different to real tangible success, and that wearing the badge of founder is is a found... Is a badge that makes certain personalities feel really great. But, actually, running a healthy, sustainable business that employs real people, that makes real revenue, that delivers real value to customers, is really hard, and you have to show up every day. Yeah. And you have to be a good leader, and you have to be a good human. And it's it's so challenging, which is why so few people just jump around. Right? They just start the new one.
01:16:32 · Sachin, Xharmagne Carandang
[01:16:32] S2: Which is, I think, exciting coming back to what you were saying, Xharmagne, for Australian founders where because we have less noise around us, we can actually focus on customers more. And then once you solve that thing, then expand to The US. We kind of had a conversation about this about ten days ago in our company where we're like, we actually have a real opportunity here, where there's a lot of people in our industry that have raised a lot more money trying to one shot that way. If we do it, you know, with humans in the loop first, and slowly get there a little bit more incremental, build a much better product, and don't go on Twitter and see who's raising what, because as we know, it doesn't really matter. There's companies that have raised a lot of money that don't have very good products, right? And I think that's been more true now than ever before. You can go in and a lot of people get experimentation revenue where people are willing to try them, but then churn rates are like, you know, greater than we've ever seen before for some of these top companies. [01:17:23] S0: But that's the thing, think building a good product sadly is not enough. Again, you have to get in the room and prove that you are the better product, and that's the weird part.
01:17:23 · Xharmagne Carandang, Michelle Gilmore
[01:17:23] S0: But that's the thing, think building a good product sadly is not enough. Again, you have to get in the room and prove that you are the better product, and that's the weird part. [01:17:33] S1: Yeah. Depending on the context. I think that Lorikeet absolutely is in a difficult situation in that there are... And Steve and I were chatting about this, that there are some kind of the copycats that are even copying, like, exactly what you say about your product the week after you do it or the day after. [01:17:48] S0: Oh, did have that. [01:17:49] S1: Yeah. Which we're finding at Juno as well, but I think that who you're selling to is is sort of the same. And on face value, it's not until you get in there that you really feel the difference, and you have a setup debt. Mhmm. Whereas, Juno, you can start using it in three minutes. Yeah. Right? So we don't, like, we don't have that needing to kind of front load those bets. Yep. Like, we can we can go a little wider and cast a cast a wider net because our customer is literally anyone that wants to talk to someone about their service product experience. Governments, organizations, childcare centers, schools, consumer brands, like, it's just a broader one. [01:18:34] S0: Depends on your customer. [01:18:35] S1: I do still think, though... I mean, I'm a giant fan of Lorikeet, but I do still think that quality will continue to be your moat. Oh, for sure. As I think the market will start... Your buyers will start to understand what those notions mean, and you guys will just stay the course.
01:18:35 · Michelle Gilmore, Xharmagne Carandang, Adam Miller, Sachin
[01:18:35] S1: I do still think, though... I mean, I'm a giant fan of Lorikeet, but I do still think that quality will continue to be your moat. Oh, for sure. As I think the market will start... Your buyers will start to understand what those notions mean, and you guys will just stay the course. [01:18:51] S0: Oh, yeah. For sure. Like, I'm not discounting definitely. I'm I'm such a big product design fan. It's just that get in there somehow, and then hopefully build your reputation from there. Because I heard the Cluelly investor... Was it a 16? [01:19:06] S5: Yeah. Because they said that, oh, we bet [01:19:08] S0: on them because, yes, hype distribution hype. That means they can attract talent that can help them build better product. I don't know. But, you know, even they're betting on product. [01:19:17] S1: Aren't they just sort of scaling disappointment if they have a family product? That's the thing. Hype does. [01:19:23] S2: But... No. And I was thinking that do it until the models get better, and then they make their products actually [01:19:29] S0: Balance a whole other thing. [01:19:30] S1: Yes. Think that they just raise another round quickly and... [01:19:34] S0: No. To hire good people to actually make the product better. AI model or not. [01:19:40] S2: This is a serious hate. Like, it's... [01:19:41] S1: Yeah. Know. It's fascinating. Yeah. Also, whether you've got long game in mind or whether it's [01:19:47] S0: a quick.