The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch
00:51:46 · Erik Bernhardsson
[00:51:46] S0: Yeah, I understand what you're saying. So what would yours be? I don't know. I mean, think one thought I have is, at some point, this AI stuff is growing so fast, and we're here, and we're gonna go to here, and then there's gonna be a pullback, you know, 20%, 30 in the stock market, everyone's gonna freak out, and people are gonna say it's the end of the world. I'm almost certain it's gonna happen, but, like, I'm so bullish, because then we're gonna keep going. And, like, you know, like, so that would be, like, one thing that I'm like, you know There's gonna be a pullback. I'm okay with that, because I think the long term opportunity is so fucking big. It's, like, so large. Do you take secondaries? Very little. Why? I mean, I personally don't need a lot of money. I'm pretty happy with life, and I have enough. So personally, I actually support it for my employees, though. It's it's quite important, actually, as a founder that you make the equity worth as much as possible, and one of the way to do that and to tell future candidates that, No, this isn't just paper money, this is real money, is to have a precedent of doing employee secondaries. Then you can point to last round, we let employees sell this much or whatever, and up to 10%. Like I think you have to have guardrails. Like you don't want employees to sell too much. You want them to still be very, you know, have a lot of skin in the game and be very incentivized to make the company successful. I But think it's a way to, you know, create a very liquid, hard currency out of the equity.
00:53:04 · Harry Stebbings, Erik Bernhardsson
[00:53:04] S1: I totally agree, and as you think about a talent marketplace that's more competitive, it's very It's [00:53:10] S0: extremely competitive out there. [00:53:11] S1: Is it nuts? [00:53:12] S0: It's nuts. It's nuts. I mean, you know, like, the offers we see for... We've lost new grads going to some of the labs for, like, talking 20. I mean, these are exceptional people. Exceptional. [00:53:25] S1: What makes an exceptional, exceptional new ground? You know, like, [00:53:29] S0: just fucking sharp people. You know? These are, like... I I know it when I see it. Like, they're just, you know, they're just extremely hungry, hardworking, do everything about technology. Mean, they go to some of the big labs. [00:53:41] S1: Is that it? They go to OpenAI and Anthropic? Yeah, the [00:53:43] S0: big labs. Yeah. They pay a lot. [00:53:44] S1: But is that where the talent comes? [00:53:46] S0: There's like a few other ones, but I mean, mainly those people are known for paying a lot of money. [00:53:51] S1: And you won't pay that much?
00:53:51 · Harry Stebbings, Erik Bernhardsson
[00:53:51] S1: And you won't pay that much? [00:53:53] S0: We pay a lot. We can go very aggressive. We wanna be out there paying 95... Fifth percentile for... In the market. And there's like a few companies that I know, like, they're probably gonna pay a little bit more. I think we have way more upside in the equity. Going back to what I said about secondaries, I think it's important that for that reason also like to create like a real tangible value and the currency in the equity that makes us, you know, our offers seem very, very strong. Plus the fact that we have a lot of upside. I mean, you said it, right? Like our stock seems cheap. Like I kind of agree, there's a lot of upside in our stock. So that enables us to not necessarily have to match with the labs, but I think, you know, create a compelling sales pitch for why our comp package is, like, basically better than the labs. And we're willing to go very far to get the best talent. [00:54:33] S1: Okay. We're gonna do a quick fire round because otherwise, could talk to you all day. You have a great angel portfolio, OpenRouter. You mentioned Lovable before. You can put all of your money into only one. [00:54:44] S0: I love turbopuffer. I know Simon really well. He's a Danish guy. He's got this Scandinavian connection. Just a fantastic entrepreneur. I just love the business. [00:54:52] S1: How big can that business be?
00:54:52 · Harry Stebbings, Erik Bernhardsson
[00:54:52] S1: How big can that business be? [00:54:54] S0: That's a good question. I mean, it is, like, somewhat specialized. They're doing vector databases. I think it could be a very large category. If I ran that company, I would have 500 different ideas of how to expand into many adjacent things around databases, data warehouses, other types of querying system. Like there's... It could be a large category. [00:55:10] S1: What have you changed your mind on most in the last twelve months? [00:55:13] S0: Probably the magnitude of the Sandbox space. I think it's kind of insane. Like, I look at the revenue, and it just keeps going up. And I'm like, well, clearly has to stop right now. And I think I'm, like, doing some sort of reverse psychology on the revenue because it just keeps going up. I'm like, what is going on? It just keeps growing and growing. And, like, I've been wrong so many times. I'm like, you know, in a good way, like, you know, and and so I... It's incredible how large that space has gotten. [00:55:33] S1: What do you think is the most overheated category within AI today?
00:55:33 · Harry Stebbings, Erik Bernhardsson
[00:55:33] S1: What do you think is the most overheated category within AI today? [00:55:38] S0: Oh, boy. I I don't know. I I don't think anything is overheated. I will say, like, one of the things that I'm a little nervous about is companies that are dependent on continual infusion of equity capital. I would not invest in them. And there's a lot of them that I... I would be nervous about anything where, like, if there's a venture capital pullback, they will struggle to raise more money. I think it's important you raise the the... Every round as if it's your last round, and there's, like, a real path towards commercialization and revenue. [00:56:07] S1: You got two kids. [00:56:08] S0: Two kids. [00:56:09] S1: Biggest lesson on being a good dad and being a good CEO? [00:56:12] S0: I mean, sometimes I feel like it's kinda similar. Like, you mean, like, in terms of, like, how to balance it, or do you mean in terms of just, like, being a good dad? [00:56:18] S1: What does it take to be a good dad?
00:56:18 · Harry Stebbings, Erik Bernhardsson
[00:56:18] S1: What does it take to be a good dad? [00:56:20] S0: Setting them up for success in life. And I always, like, think about, like, the right amount to push the kids. I'm not a tiger dad, but, like, I think a little bit you need to push the kids a little bit to, like, get them exposure. I don't want to create, you know, in the future a situation where my kids come back to me and say, Hey, dad, I wish you'd made me do X, or I wish you'd made me do Y. But I also don't want to create a situation where my kids come back to me when they're 20 and they say, Hey, dad, why did you make us do X? Or why did you make us do Y? So a little bit of pushing. I make them play piano. I don't know why. But like, I think it's good way to, like, learn something that I hope, you know, when they're 20, 30, they will actually appreciate. They don't like it that much. But I think stuff like that, you gotta push them a little bit, but not too much. My my parents are very lax, and, you know, I discover math and and programming. And they were like, Erik, why are you doing so much math? Like, you should go out and play like the other kids. So in a way, I actually wish they would have pushed me even harder, but I pushed myself so hard anyway, so it doesn't matter. So so you let... That, like, right amount of pushing. [00:57:15] S1: You push yourself so hard. You're... Sorry. You're actually from a nation where you are told that it's bad to stand out. I'm forgetting that word, but I had a Swedish girlfriend. Yeah. Where it's like, it's bad to stand out.