Inspired with Alexa von Tobel
00:22:44 · Alexa von Tobel, James Cadwallader
[00:22:44] S0: Everything they need to get through all of their own internal All [00:22:48] S1: of these things start to become really important when you're working with giant brands. [00:22:53] S0: And you built all of it. [00:22:54] S1: We built all of it. Yeah. And it actually takes a long time to build all of that stuff. And you want it to be bought to tie and reliable. So, yeah, there's not one sort of silver bullet response to why we're winning the enterprise. But it's kind of a combination of all those things. [00:23:13] S0: That's impressive. Really, really impressive. James, I want to shift to a little bit this just dead internet theory. I think it's just for everyone listening and watching, it's a really interesting one. And I would love just to know how do you think about what the internet looks like in five years, knowing that right now we're still as humans getting online, looking at our computers, but rapidly you're watching that shift pretty quickly. What does the internet look like in five years in your mind?
00:23:13 · Alexa von Tobel, James Cadwallader
[00:23:13] S0: That's impressive. Really, really impressive. James, I want to shift to a little bit this just dead internet theory. I think it's just for everyone listening and watching, it's a really interesting one. And I would love just to know how do you think about what the internet looks like in five years, knowing that right now we're still as humans getting online, looking at our computers, but rapidly you're watching that shift pretty quickly. What does the internet look like in five years in your mind? [00:23:47] S1: For brands and marketers, I don't think this is a big concern. I think for the folks or the businesses whose product is content, it could be a very difficult period. I think this is existential to publishers whose product is their content. Yeah. These large language models have been trained on core content. And we're seeing the disintermediation of human attention with that content where I just ask Chat to give me the scoop on, I don't know, the latest happening in the world. And Chat will send an agent to visit one of those news sites or visit, you know, that there's so much volume of content that, you know, that an agent can get the answer for you from somewhere. For these publishers who rely on a human visitor hitting their web page, and then showing them an ad to fund it, I think, yeah, it's gonna be... I've spent a fair amount of time thinking about where this can go. And it's... It could be very difficult for those publishers. Only if your only if your product is content.
00:23:47 · James Cadwallader, Alexa von Tobel
[00:23:47] S1: For brands and marketers, I don't think this is a big concern. I think for the folks or the businesses whose product is content, it could be a very difficult period. I think this is existential to publishers whose product is their content. Yeah. These large language models have been trained on core content. And we're seeing the disintermediation of human attention with that content where I just ask Chat to give me the scoop on, I don't know, the latest happening in the world. And Chat will send an agent to visit one of those news sites or visit, you know, that there's so much volume of content that, you know, that an agent can get the answer for you from somewhere. For these publishers who rely on a human visitor hitting their web page, and then showing them an ad to fund it, I think, yeah, it's gonna be... I've spent a fair amount of time thinking about where this can go. And it's... It could be very difficult for those publishers. Only if your only if your product is content. [00:25:00] S0: So you're saying if your product is content, just to be provocative for a second, the question is, do you even exist? Is there a place for you at all?
00:25:00 · Alexa von Tobel, James Cadwallader
[00:25:00] S0: So you're saying if your product is content, just to be provocative for a second, the question is, do you even exist? Is there a place for you at all? [00:25:08] S1: Perhaps. But then this is where the sort of dead internet theory comes in. Because ironically, the large language models, or just answer engines, generally speaking, if you wanna call it that chat, Gemini, etcetera, they rely on the content in order to answer the question. Of course. So the thing, like, the example I always use is, you know, say if there were, God forbid, an explosion downstairs on Broadway, chat... And we ask ChatGPT right now and said, what's going on on Broadway? It doesn't know the answer to that question. It doesn't know what's happened on Broadway. What it's relying on is a fleshy human being experiencing the explosion downstairs and writing a blog post, a news article, something about the explosion, and then it can go and rag that into its answer. So humans play this very important role where we are becoming like APIs between reality and AI. [00:26:02] S0: That's so interesting. Humans are... That that... That's a good one. Humans are becoming an API between reality and this agentic future.
00:26:02 · Alexa von Tobel, James Cadwallader
[00:26:02] S0: That's so interesting. Humans are... That that... That's a good one. Humans are becoming an API between reality and this agentic future. [00:26:10] S1: Which maybe replace... You wanna get a bit Stanley Kubrick with it for a second. And I I think the sort of final destination is once you go into humanoid robotics, okay, well now, or maybe drones, it doesn't necessarily need to be, maybe OpenAI will have humanoid robots. I mean, the most obvious one here is x AI having humanoid robots scattered around the city that can experience that explosion downstairs on Broadway. [00:26:39] S0: And alert the systems. [00:26:41] S1: Yeah. Or not even alert. They would essentially sort of play the role of the reporter in that sense where they're like, hey, this is what's going on. This is what's happened. This is what this person said. Then the cops came at 11:58. And this is... And that it no longer requires a human being to act as this conduit between reality and the Internet. But, yeah, in the short term, yeah, our our ability to to translate reality to the internet is very relied on by these large language models, by the labs to create a good product. [00:27:18] S0: I want to dig into a few more of your predictions, because I think you are in such an incredibly unique perch of being able to see how the future looks. If you fast forward three to five years, what other things just seem obvious to you that maybe aren't obvious to everybody else?
00:27:18 · Alexa von Tobel, James Cadwallader
[00:27:18] S0: I want to dig into a few more of your predictions, because I think you are in such an incredibly unique perch of being able to see how the future looks. If you fast forward three to five years, what other things just seem obvious to you that maybe aren't obvious to everybody else? [00:27:35] S1: I mean, more in our world, in the world of marketing, a thing that we are very bullish on is that every brand on the planet will have their own eval or their own evals and their own set of evals that essentially determine what good looks like for their marketing and communications, etcetera. And AI utilize those evals. So let's say Walmart will have an eval for, like, this is what good Walmart brand marketing looks like. This is what good, a good PDP looks like. This is what a good press release looks like. This is what a good billboard looks like. And Walmart will own that eval. And that is really the moat of these businesses in the future will be that that eval becomes very important because in a world where intelligence has evolved to where we think it's going to to get to, it will be able to utilize, you know, you'll pipe in the intelligence like electricity, and it will be able to utilize that eval to create great marketing, basically. Because great in the world of marketing is very subjective. [00:28:46] S0: And it's moving. That's right. Right? It's not only just subjective, it's constantly evolving. [00:28:50] S1: That's correct. The ice bucket challenge. If you did that today, if we went into the ice bucket challenge right now, it wouldn't go by.