Lenny's Podcast: Product | Career | Growth
01:08:31 · Lenny Rachitsky, Elena Verna
[01:08:31] S0: I completely see what you're thinking there. Like a brand could just become known as that's just for like startups and prototyping and it's not for serious work. [01:08:38] S1: Yeah. Or it's like it's for just like it's for techies. It's like protect people. It's like it never actually enters the people outside of our little bubble that we live in. [01:08:50] S0: We kind of touched on this a little bit of just like working in A. I, working on companies, challenging, stressful, a lot of work. What's your advice for folks that are thinking about should I join a Lovable, should I join a Cursor, should I just go work at Google, you know, not not not to throw them under the bus or anything, but just... Although Google, very, very successful AI now, maybe less AI focused company.
01:09:13 · Elena Verna
[01:09:13] S1: I really believe that there's different... You need to understand what's the environment that is right for you. Just please understand that AI companies are very hectic at the moment. They're very unstable by definition of that product market fit treadmill about that distribution of how they're actually distributed to the market really changing about how product is even being developed in the first place. So if you are very comfortable in being in that messy middle and really comfortable of converting chaos into clarity for you and those around you, then yeah, AI company is a wonderful place for you to really absorb new skill sets right now. Because even before joining Lovable, when I kept seeing AI, I'm like, my gosh, like, I'm so tired of seeing AI everywhere. Is it really changing the world? Like, is it really changing the way people work? And when I was I was at Dropbox before and, yeah, we would use AI here and there and I would use ChatGPT. I've never used AI there the way I use AI at Lovable and the things that I'm capable of accomplishing at Lovable. And I don't know if I've ever would have made that leap so fast unless I joined Lovable. If I would have just read or listened about it, it's just different compared to be surrounded by people where it's expectation. It's not like a nice to have or something that somebody is asking you to do. This is just how you get things done. And you have to think about everything of like, what can I do here versus where do I add value versus like in the traditional sense of work is like I start with my own value and then I augmented with A? I. And here, like the mindset has completely shifted. Now, I don't think A. I. Is replacing everybody's job. So like, please don't like don't look at it as a as as that cliche saying. I actually often call AI is like average intelligence that helps me get the platform up. And then I add my human thinking and my human creativity on top of it to get it to the next level. But at least I can get this base level done with AI really freaking quickly. So from that perspective, I think if you want to leapfrog on what it means to be AI native employee and how to use all of these AI tools, you should go to AI company.
01:11:22 · Elena Verna, Lenny Rachitsky
But if you know that your superpower is in more structure and more definition and really high specialty of things, because in the AI companies, they're all fairly small. So you'll have to generalize quite a bit and have a lot of ownership, all of areas that you usually maybe not have ownership over, then you shouldn't join it because AI companies will evolve to be more stable too. So it's just a matter of time on where you can join. So I would just urge people to look at their superpowers and the type of environments that really speak to them so they can feel happy because this can lead to burnout for wrong type of personalities very quickly. [01:12:00] S0: Yeah. My sense is if you want work life balance, don't join one of these companies because that's just not the way they work.
01:12:00 · Lenny Rachitsky, Elena Verna
[01:12:00] S0: Yeah. My sense is if you want work life balance, don't join one of these companies because that's just not the way they work. [01:12:06] S1: I don't know if I'd go that far. Mean, I have family. I have two kids. I feel like I have a very good work life balance, but I put in boundaries for myself. Like I know when I need time off I need because I know when my brain starts to overheat, so to speak. But I also know that work is my hobby and it's my passion. And I will. This is the best work of my life that I'm doing right now. There's no other place that I'd rather be than to be here. So I think that you just need to be more careful about setting your own boundaries that you know you need. But I mean, let's face it. I don't think anybody has work life balance regardless of a company that they work at, even at Google or Microsoft or any of the others, think everybody's freaking out and running as fast as they can. It's just they're running it in different structures. [01:12:57] S0: I'm really glad you said that and corrected me there, that it is possible to work at a company, one of, if not the fastest growing company in history, and actually have work life balance to get sleep, to spend time with your kids and family.
01:12:57 · Lenny Rachitsky, Elena Verna
[01:12:57] S0: I'm really glad you said that and corrected me there, that it is possible to work at a company, one of, if not the fastest growing company in history, and actually have work life balance to get sleep, to spend time with your kids and family. [01:13:11] S1: You just have to protect it ruthlessly, but you also need to be realistic with how much is expected out of you, and you need to feel confident that you'll be able to deliver it. And by the way, you won't be able to deliver it unless you use AI in many aspects of your work life. So that's like the piece that helps you actually get to hit those expectations of outcomes that you need to do and the velocity. But I'm very protective of my personal time with kids. Like, why did I have children if I'm not gonna spend time with them? So, like, those are part of the non negotiables that I bring along with me in every single work. [01:13:47] S0: For people that maybe have trouble setting boundaries or just not good at this, anything, what do you... What works for you? Is it just is it as easy as just telling people, here's where I need to leave? What do you what advice do you have for people to set boundaries like that?
01:13:58 · Elena Verna
[01:13:58] S1: So, first of all, I would not think about it as a work life balance. There's no such thing as balance. A balance feels like, oh, I have enough time for everything. I don't have enough time for anything. But I prioritize my family in some moments. I prioritize work in other moments. And I don't try to balance the two. I go where I'm needed and where I go. And I feel like I'm not going to regret the choices that I'm making today. So I'm constantly trying to put myself in the future and say, well, I resent myself if I make this choice right now. And if the answer is yes, I don't make that choice. And sometimes I have to say no to Anton and say like, I can't make it or I won't be there. I need to be here with my family. Like today, I need to cancel my day. My kid is sick and he needs me and I need to be I need to take him to the doctor. So I think that just making in the moment, like in every day, even sometimes in the hour decisions to me works better than trying to balance something that is completely unachievable and it feels overwhelming to even think about. But I prioritise this in my sleep, my health, my workout schedule, my kids, my family, my husband and just my downtime, because I know that I'm most creative once I have separation from work, because then I come in with like all cylinders firing and I have so many more ideas about it. So to me, it's actually part of doing my best work is to take time off.