Radical Talks
00:19:35 · Aidan Gomez
[00:19:35] S2: Yeah. So there's, like, just so much deep integration. Like, this could never happen. And we were, like, still trying to make the argument. We're like, well, okay. You know, you thought free trade was a thing, and it vanished overnight. And ally and foe alike, same treatment. Like, you know, there's a... The risk is like a real risk. Like, this this, like, seriously might happen and you should prepare for it. But still folks were like, yeah. Like, maybe we can do some, like, little stuff, but not taking it seriously. And then mythos hit, and then it was like, this is real. It not only could happen, it has happened, and we will plan for it to happen again. And so it was just like a a big change in the world. It was sort of like a one way door, like crossing the Rubicon. It was like, we now exist in a different world where, all these assumptions that we held true, we will never assume, they hold true forever, after. And in that, I think, you know, it's probably good for the world. Like, it was a very fragile state that we were in. We had built up this system where we had a a single point of failure. Everyone depended on only one other country to supply them all of their technology, and that's dangerous for democracy. Right? Like, you know, systems engineering one zero one. Don't build a single point of failure. And we used to not do that. Right? Like, there's multiple countries inside the g seven or, like, the democratic block that develop fighter jets, that develop missile tech, that develop energy supply systems, nuclear reactors, that have nukes, like bombs. Right? Like, we distributed this technology, across the block of democracies. But then when you look back over the digital revolution and you look at, like, consumer devices, social media, major hyperscale clouds, you know, they're all from one country. Which is a 100%. And so there's, this line when digital tech started taking off where you just see this massive concentration risk emerge. And I I really do believe that contributes to a lot of the weakening of democracy that we see in the world today and the fragility that I think we've... We all feel and see in the democratic block. So I'm I'm personally, like, a big believer in...
00:22:27 · Aidan Gomez, Jordan Jacobs
Probably one of the most important things we can do over the next decade is to ensure that multiple democracies develop the core capabilities, the core levers of economic, social, you know, national security, technology. Otherwise, we're just gonna... Like, we're not doing ourselves any favors. We're not doing The US any favors. We're not doing democracy any favors by persisting in this world where we engineer in fragility. [00:23:01] S1: And so that that kind of leads into how you've taken action. One of those ways is to combine with alpha. Talk us through the the strategic thinking behind that. You know, how... What does that mean for you now in Europe and how you're perceived by customers, whether they're regulated industries, governments, etcetera. [00:23:25] S2: Yes. So we're we're dual citizen, essentially. So we're Canadian and we're German. We're European for all intents and purposes. Like, we we fit the definition of a European company under the Bio European Act. We have a headquarters in Berlin and one in Toronto. We have board representation from Germany, from Canada. We have board meetings in Germany and Canada. So at the governance level, at the operational level, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera, we are German Canadian. [00:24:05] S1: Or Canadian German. Or
00:24:07 · Aidan Gomez
[00:24:07] S2: Canadian German. I mean, obviously, I don't have a German passport, so I'm a little bit biased. But as the CEO of Cohere, I'm not. Right? Like, I'm equally committed to the success of these two nations and protecting their interests and their sovereignty, and that opens up a massive market. The European market is immense. You know, it's fractured. It's, like, disorganized and a little bit, like, chaotic, and there are plenty of critiques of the EU. But it is a incredibly powerful and large market, And you can see it starting to to unify, to act, to prioritize sovereignty. I mean, they literally have, like, a hot kinetic war on their eastern border. So they have to. Like, they... There's just... It's like marching towards them. And so they they don't have a choice at this stage. They're going to have to defend themselves. People are already trying to impose their will and encroach and harass and and attack them. And so you can see there's a there's a real need for sovereignty, and it's a real privilege, to be able to to help them with that and and to take that on. My family comes from Europe. My, you know, I'm the first one that was born in Canada. My mom's British. My dad is Spanish. Both of my families live in The UK and and in Spain. My wife's sister lives in Berlin. Like, protecting Europe is good for everyone. It's good for The States. It's good for Canada. It's good for anyone who believes in democracy and thinks that's a better way of life than, desperate regimes and, you know, authoritarianism. So I I really do think it's, like, such a crucial priority. Sorry. I forgot your question. I started rambling. No.
00:26:15 · Jordan Jacobs, Aidan Gomez
[00:26:15] S1: No. You answered the question. Why combine with alfalfa and what does it meant for you? So that was actually a great explanation. Okay. [00:26:22] S2: Great. [00:26:23] S1: See, by accident, you got there. So the people that are here are people who are in AI thinking about becoming founders or on the journey of becoming founders. Just stepping back, kind of looking, putting your journey in perspective, what are what are just give us some pieces of advice about what people should be thinking about, how they should be approaching it, you know, how big should their ideas be? Should they be thinking about something small and very clear or something very big? Should they be massively ambitious or not? Should they be looking for co founders? Like give us some of the nuggets of things that you've kind of learned along the way that maybe happened accidentally or maybe intentionally, but have been beneficial or things that you did wrong that you would have done differently. And it's a grab bag. Just hit us with anything that you think of.
00:27:23 · Aidan Gomez
[00:27:23] S2: I got so lucky with my cofounders. Like, I don't know how I got so lucky. But I've had lots of friends who have started companies, and, like, the wrong cofounding unit is so painful. I I don't know. I would recommend solo founding, like, instead of founding with the wrong cofounding unit. So be very, very thoughtful, about who you choose. The the way that Nick and I went through it, we basically viewed it as a marriage. You know? Like, it's just like this is for life. Like, our destinies are permanently intertwined. Our lives will be inseparable. We can't run away from each other. There's like... You know, it's a... This is a permanent irreversible commitment, and we are essentially becoming siblings. And we should approach it as siblings. Like, we're gonna fight. We're gonna have disagreements, but you can't escape each other. Like, you're in this for life, and you're gonna have to work around the weaknesses of the other person and, like... But you still love each other, you know, and, like, you you want the best for each other and and the best for you you both jointly. So I think that's how we approached it, and that's what's give a... Given us the staying power and the stability in the company. So, yeah, I I don't know how to give advice around picking founders. I think I just got, like, super lucky.
00:29:14 · Jordan Jacobs, Aidan Gomez
[00:29:14] S1: The unit of three is interesting. So in start... You know, as a founder, two of the companies I started were three. Both both AI companies. We we were three in each case. Three is interesting. It's different than one. It's different than two. I mean, it's got its pros and cons. How have you found having three of you to be beneficial? What is unique about that configuration? [00:29:45] S2: I don't have a counterexample, because I don't know what it's like to be four or two or one or...