00:49:58 · David Senra, Rafael Vivas
[00:49:58] S0: But is there anything else that that you think is rare or unique in the approach, the way you guys run your company that you don't see outside the company and other businesses? [00:50:08] S1: We try to give people as much ownership and as much work as possible versus like, a lot of companies, oh, you're overworked. Like, we're gonna go hire a bunch more people. Our approach from it is like, okay, what can we build to automate your work at certain parts of your work to make it a lot more efficient? What things are not important that you're wasting time on that we just shouldn't be doing at all? There's no, like, peer managers in AppLovin. Like, everyone is a doer. Like, even our CTO is pushing code himself. Right? And he manages, like, a 100% engineering work. Really just, being relentless on, like, prioritizing what we work on and then also being very hands on are really the two like difference makers. There is no special magic, David. It's like fucking work on the things that matter and do it over a long period of time, success will come.
00:50:08 · Rafael Vivas, David Senra
[00:50:08] S1: We try to give people as much ownership and as much work as possible versus like, a lot of companies, oh, you're overworked. Like, we're gonna go hire a bunch more people. Our approach from it is like, okay, what can we build to automate your work at certain parts of your work to make it a lot more efficient? What things are not important that you're wasting time on that we just shouldn't be doing at all? There's no, like, peer managers in AppLovin. Like, everyone is a doer. Like, even our CTO is pushing code himself. Right? And he manages, like, a 100% engineering work. Really just, being relentless on, like, prioritizing what we work on and then also being very hands on are really the two like difference makers. There is no special magic, David. It's like fucking work on the things that matter and do it over a long period of time, success will come. [00:50:53] S0: You and I were talking about the Luca Ferrari episode that I just did. A lot of what you just said is very similar to like Luca. He has this idea. He's like, hey, I don't really give a shit about pedigree. I wanna hire young people. He loves people that has no experience. And he goes, and then you find somebody who's young, talented, and hungry, and you saturate their capacity, which is exactly what you just said. It's like, we're all working. Like, I'm gonna give you more than you can handle. Why do you think you and Adam and Luca arrived at the same conclusion? And why is that so important?
00:50:53 · David Senra, Rafael Vivas
[00:50:53] S0: You and I were talking about the Luca Ferrari episode that I just did. A lot of what you just said is very similar to like Luca. He has this idea. He's like, hey, I don't really give a shit about pedigree. I wanna hire young people. He loves people that has no experience. And he goes, and then you find somebody who's young, talented, and hungry, and you saturate their capacity, which is exactly what you just said. It's like, we're all working. Like, I'm gonna give you more than you can handle. Why do you think you and Adam and Luca arrived at the same conclusion? And why is that so important? [00:51:19] S1: I think it's because we weren't able... We didn't have the cash to go and hire out these massive teams. At And the time, we didn't have kind of the pedigree or kind of background to be able to hire the best talent out there. Right? So we had to go get the people we could, and we had to torture them into greatness, kind of like Jensen Huang talks about. [00:51:36] S0: I love that idea. It's like I don't like giving... In in this biography called the NVIDIA way, Tae Kim has the line. He's like, don't like giving up on people. I'd rather torture them into greatness. And you get to the end of your book, and he's talking about... He wakes up every day. He looks in the mirror. He's like, why do I suck so much? And this is even after I think he has the most valuable company in the world. It's like, oh, he tortured himself into greatness too.
00:51:36 · David Senra, Rafael Vivas
[00:51:36] S0: I love that idea. It's like I don't like giving... In in this biography called the NVIDIA way, Tae Kim has the line. He's like, don't like giving up on people. I'd rather torture them into greatness. And you get to the end of your book, and he's talking about... He wakes up every day. He looks in the mirror. He's like, why do I suck so much? And this is even after I think he has the most valuable company in the world. It's like, oh, he tortured himself into greatness too. [00:51:53] S1: Yeah. And and I would say Adam did that to me. Right? So, like... And I would say to this day, it's like it's always conflict. It's always concentration. Like, he's always pushing. And that just, like, it starts at the top and, like, it boils its way down throughout the organization. [00:52:08] S0: So you you described him before as, like, an incredible taskmaster. [00:52:11] S1: Yes. [00:52:12] S0: Like for somebody on the outside, explain what that feels like.
00:52:12 · David Senra, Rafael Vivas
[00:52:12] S0: Like for somebody on the outside, explain what that feels like. [00:52:14] S1: He understands the right buttons to push for everybody. Right? So if you're insecure, he's gonna double click on that. Right? And say, oh, you're stupid. You're not that good. You can't do it. And you're like, well, I'm gonna show this guy that I can do it. Right? And for other people, you know, it's like, he will, you know, be really nice to them and, like, that's how he gets more out of them. Or like other people, it's like... He would just be like, oh, well, that's interesting that you think about it this way. And then that person senses doubt and then, you know, they go and execute on it. Adam is just... He's he's hypercompetitive and he's... And that's what also makes him a great leader is that he understands the things that make people tick and really pushes them to do their best work. [00:52:48] S0: Does he push you further than you think you can go? [00:52:51] S1: I think there's this great quote in in Andre Agassi's biography where he says, his dad tortured him. And at a certain point, goes, I no longer need my dad to... I'm probably butchering this, but I no longer need my dad to torture me. I am old enough to do it myself. Right? And that's, you know, that's how I am with him now. It's like, I went through so many years of it. I don't need him to do it. Right? It's it's ingrained in me.
00:52:51 · Rafael Vivas, David Senra
[00:52:51] S1: I think there's this great quote in in Andre Agassi's biography where he says, his dad tortured him. And at a certain point, goes, I no longer need my dad to... I'm probably butchering this, but I no longer need my dad to torture me. I am old enough to do it myself. Right? And that's, you know, that's how I am with him now. It's like, I went through so many years of it. I don't need him to do it. Right? It's it's ingrained in me. [00:53:17] S0: Yeah. This is what I love about you guys. And I wanna... The next question I'm gonna ask you is like, what do you think people from the outside get wrong about this performance culture? It goes back to this idea, it's like, hey, maybe we should like, our brand's a little too friendly and too soft. It doesn't like represent like this ruthless culture inside. I think I mentioned on the episode I did with him, it's like, what I like about Raf is I can call him at like 11PM. And he picks up. You mentioned earlier, was like, dude, you don't believe in scheduled phone calls. I was like, no, I just call people. And that's it. Like, let's just talk now. What do you think you should update in terms of the new brand of AppLovin and the communication you guys are gonna start doing externally? Like what's gonna be different than what you were doing?