Decoder with Nilay Patel
00:25:01 · Mitch Glazier
[00:25:01] S4: in New York. RIAA actually started as a tech standards association. They created the RIAA curve, the equalization curve that allowed both the recording and the playback of vinyl records on a way that would work on every single record player. So it didn't really start out as a lobbying organization or a litigation organization. That's how we became famous or infamous depending on what I'm on where you sit. But we started out as a tech standards organization and we still do that. We still participate in international standard setting organizations right now to try and set the fields for example for the metadata that people will use whether it's AI or any other technological format or in labeling for example. But we also run the golden platinum program which we're probably best known for for the... With the general public. So we're like those, you know, nerdy auditors that actually certify the Golden Platinum records, like the lawyers, like the PricewaterhouseCooper lawyers that walk out on the Oscars or whatever. But that's great because it allows us to sort of interact directly with artists and celebrate their success which is very cool. We also like put together all the revenue from the entire recorded part of the music business and we release that twice a year and that helps inform people about the markets and it helps to sort of on the business side give people the sort of benchmarks that they need industry wide. Everybody knows what their company is doing, what their management company is doing, but to know what the whole industry is doing and whether or not you're on par or you know less or more is is quite helpful. We are the spokesperson when industry is aligned. We're out there sort of talking on behalf of the industry. We technically represent the major labels, but we forge coalitions because whether you're major or indie, whether you're an artist or a publisher or a songwriter, most of the time our interests are aligned. Every once in a while we fight each other. But where we are aligned, I would say is 90% of the time, the RIAA is sort of the driving force in building coalitions so that we can all speak together. So we do a lot of stuff. We don't just sue people and lobby the government, although those are big parts of what we do. And then we also take on the content protection force for the industry.
00:27:28 · Mitch Glazier, Nilay Patel
So we have our content protection department operates three sixty five days a year, twenty four hours a day. We work with sister organizations in London and New Zealand so it doesn't matter what time of the day it is. We have people coordinated and working around the clock. And then we do all those takedown notices. We get a note from a manager saying a pre release of this artist material that hasn't come out yet is up. We need your help getting it down. We do all of that and we do it the entire organization is only 46 people. Wow. Isn't that amazing? But the most passionate music lovers you would ever imagine, [00:28:07] S3: you know, we...... 46 people. [00:28:09] S4: Only 46 people. [00:28:10] S3: How is that structured? Does everyone just do everything all day long?
00:28:10 · Nilay Patel, Mitch Glazier
[00:28:10] S3: How is that structured? Does everyone just do everything all day long? [00:28:14] S4: There aren't as many redundancies as there should be. We're divided into those different departments, right? Like content protection, communications and research, public policy and industry relations, and obviously legal affairs. So we are, I would say, small and nimble but we punch above our weight. We are high profile but our industry if you think about it compared to the folks that we are sort of up against if you want to view it that way, it's really small. I mean the entire recorded music business was $11,000,000,000 wholesale last year in The United States. The market cap of just one AI company. Yeah. Right? Is, you know, $2,000,000,000,000. So when we're out there lobbying and we've got like, you know, our three person lobbying team at the RIAA trying to make a point to policymakers and you're dealing with you know super PAC money that equals $250,000,000 in a midterm cycle, you know we don't have that kind of revenue. We don't but what we do have is music. And we have artists who everybody loves and who are culture makers and who are messengers that people trust and listen to. So I think we do pretty well for our tininess. [00:29:41] S3: The other question I ask every CEO comes on the show is about decisions. You have a lot of decisions to make. Some of these are decisions of first impression. No one has ever decided how AI and art should work together. How do you make decisions? What's your
00:29:53 · Mitch Glazier
[00:29:53] S4: Personally, my my leadership style is I like to have people surround me who are not yes people. I don't want people just sort of... If I come up with an idea, I don't want it to be reinforced immediately. If you agree with that, great. But I like to hear from everybody. I think my team knows that I like to hear the truth and I wanna hear their raw opinion because I wanna check my instincts. I usually will have a gut instinct, but then I will survey people that I trust in our companies and people on my own team. I'm learning to be a better listener. When I hear people I kind of as soon as in my mind I feel like I know what they're saying, I tend to then jump ahead to the next. I'm like deposing them, you know, here's I have a million questions. I'm learning to sort of be a better listener and kind of understand where they're coming from. And then I take all of it and I synthesize it. And I would say about maybe 60% of the time I end up with my original gut reaction. But 40% of the time, I take a different path because of what I've heard and the expertise of those who are around me. So it takes a little longer than maybe it should and you don't always have time. Sometimes you have to make a snap decision. But on something really big, like, what what strategy are going... Are we going to take? If we feel like we need to bring a lawsuit, which is going to be a major publicized precedent setting lawsuit that could determine the rights that creators have. You have to take that as seriously as it is. Make sure that you are getting all the opinions that you need to get. I also have a ton of friends who work so to speak on the other side, people who I trust who I've known for many years. And I will often, without disclosing anything I'm not supposed to disclose, I will often call them and say, what is your perspective on this? Like I live in this world of like creator rights where I'm thinking in one direction, but what would you argue on the other side? What how are you looking at this? And when that informs your decision making, not only are you more prepared, but sometimes you will alter the way you think about something. Mhmm. By putting yourself in their shoes and understanding, you know, there's another side to this that's gonna make sense to a judge or to a policymaker because they're not crazy.
00:32:18 · Mitch Glazier, Nilay Patel
I mean, they they have a different take and it's pretty valid and sometimes I have to be a moderating force even in my own industry of saying we're living in our bubble, they're living in their bubble and so if we're going to be effective finding a solution, if that's what we want. If what we want is a solution, then we may have to think about this in a way that leads to a landing zone. If we don't want a solution and what we're trying to do is sort of like, you know, make good trouble, that's okay. There's nothing wrong with that. That's a good thing. It can lead to good results but if we want some, if we're trying to get to here, we better figure out a path, a realistic path to get there. [00:33:02] S3: Okay. So I'm very sorry for this but it feels to me like the rest of this conversation is just gonna be nightmare law school hypotheticals. Like that's just this is just what we're doing now. Nothing more [00:33:13] S4: like that. [00:33:14] S3: That framework applies to a lot of different problems particularly like on the other side they make some good points too. So I opened Instagram today and I saw 9,000,000 deepfakes of celebrities being put in the video for Popstar by Drake. Have you ever seen this video? [00:33:31] S4: Yes. Yes.
00:33:31 · Mitch Glazier, Nilay Patel
[00:33:31] S4: Yes. Yes. [00:33:31] S3: Drake didn't do it himself just... It's Justin Bieber is acting as Drake in the video. And I saw one with Lewis Hamilton today. I saw one with Donald Trump today. I saw a full Star Wars one where it's a Darth Vader, and he's just been deep faked into the... Into Justin Bieber's mansion singing a Drake song. And I thought to myself, I can't even count the layers of intellectual property issue here. Right? First of all, no one has the license to any of this likeness. Right? Like Lewis Hamilton could probably be like, hey, that's me. I don't know under which law he gets to show up and say, hey, that's me and to whom he says it. Is it the AI company? Is it the person who made the video? Is it Instagram? There are some of the platforms have private policies like YouTube now. But I don't even just that where to begin. That's very connected to you saying the scarcity is in the artist, right? The scarcity is in the relationship the fan has to the artist. But that has nothing to do with the copyrights you routinely enforce which is the recording. You can see I'm just spiraling. Like I watched one video, eight seconds of Darth Vader doing a Drake song and I thought I don't even know where to begin. Is it Disney who gets to be the angriest or is it Drake or is it someone in the middle? Can you help me just organize my thoughts here? [00:34:51] S4: So I'm, first of all, I'm so glad you're bringing this up because we have, we literally over the past three years have been dealing exactly [00:34:58] S3: yeah